This reminds me of a forum discussion I read one time about the Jeep Grand Cherokee. People were upset because their infotainment system quit working, and thus there was no way to run the heater. And the dealerships didn’t have the parts in stock; long waits.
Actually, I see nothing wrong with cars feeling like fancy tech gadgets.
The real problem is when fancy tech gadgets designers make unnecessary functional compromises to follow a trend.
Touch screens are functional compromises. In some applications, like smartphones, those compromises are a very worthwhile tradeoff to enable what is otherwise not possible. Smartphones need to fit a lot of features in a very small package. That includes a flexible interface, and they need to get your inputs out of the way when you’re not actually inputting in order to maximize screen real estate.
Cars, on the other hand, have room for tactile controls. They don’t need to make the compromise of putting commonly used controls on a touch screen. Unfortunately, it’s probably going to continue to be common not just because its trendy, but because I suspect we’re at the point where a touch screen is cheaper than the individual parts plus assembly and wiring labor of dedicated controls. And if there is already going to be a screen in the car for a backup camera, and if it’s going to be a touchscreen for more complex functions like navigation, then it becomes easy to look at removing buttons as a cost-saving exercise, not a user interface optimization.
That said, it should be observed that the study linked above was specifically about distracted driving. It compared using a touch screen to focusing entirely on driving. It didn’t compare using a touch screen to doing the same task using dedicated controls. I’m sure the latter will affect driving performance less, but it will have some effect.
That said…weren’t we talking about batteries?
Reminds me of how vehicle tech puts a hurt on the consumer. My cars are both almost 20 years old and easy to work on (mostly). No need to go to a dealer or “factory trained” technician since my Dad was a mechanic for almost 30 years. Aside from major work requiring engine or transmission removal, etc or needing special tools/equipment, we do work ourselves. Now for modern cars made after 2015 or 2017, it’s become increasingly difficult for the DIY because it’s all computers and drive by wire and software controlled electric motors for steering, AC, ABS, any of the 20 airbags, stability control, tpms, suspension, cameras, radar, etc. All controlled by software. Any work you do on those safety systems or adjacent systems that may affect the systems has to be tested, checked and any warning lights reset or systems calibrations done by the dealers since they usually hold the software and tools/test equipment from the car manufacturer. The farmers have been hit hard by this too when they were encouraged (forced) to upgrade their tractors, combines, harvesters, etc to newer ones. They got fancy sophisticated machines with fancy sophisticated computers that only dealers (John Deere, IH/Ford, Case) had access to. If a part broke or some th ing went wrong, the only way to get it fixed amd corrected was to take it to the dealer, wait for them to get to it, then pay big bucks for them to re flash a computer or reset or calibrate a motor, actuator, sensor, etc. That’s the price we pay for our tech convenience and safety. Before personal computers became a cheap, easily accessible thing, IT was an obscure profession confined for big companies. Now IT techs are everywhere and big business.
The problem isn’t that it’s alien technology, the problem is companies like John Deere, Ford, etc, have been fighting for years to claim you have no RIGHT to repair “their” copyrighted system, even after you “bought” it. The movement to undo what they have done to us is called “Right to Repair”, have a look into it. The real problem is they have already won a legal war over the years to say you can buy their stuff, but you never really own it.
Yep. Like you don’t buy software anymore, but “rent” it (SAAS, software as a service).
Even cars with mandated OBD tek, you have the generic standard codes, but also mfr-specific codes that your corner mechanic doesn’t have access to (“proprietary”). There was some fight about that, not quite sure how it all shook out.
I was annoyed with the TPMS system on my car, because you rotate the tires and it doesn’t get clued in as to which tire is which unless you “relearn” it. Slightly older model-year, you used to be able to bap the DIC, it honks the horn, then you go around the car and lower the air-pressure one by one so it knows which tire is which. Then in newer cars you “had to” get a… crap, can’t recall the name of it… the GM diagnostic doodad for a few hunnert bux. But, aha, I only later found that there are cheap (15-20bux) TPMS relearn tools that do that for you, just hold it next to the tire to make the sensor squeal like a pig, and the ’puter then reads which one is which by which one’s doing the squealing.
And yeah, I know the big fight, at least with Deere, about simple stoopit sensor failures, that cost the farmer bigtime. Not only the fees to the roving tech who might get to it in a week or three (reminiscent of the circuit-court judges in old-timey westerns), but also the down-time all that time while the equipment’s out of commission. A shade-tree mechanic could’ve/would’ve diagnosed the problem, bought a new sensor, and had it popped in and the equipment back in service in a day or less.
Thankfully only once, I had the infotainment screen just show the frame (border, edges, dividers, etc.), but not the data. Wtf?? The buttons all worked to turn the heat up, but I couldn’t see what #degrees it would be set to, or the time, outside temp, nothing. Next time I started the car it was fine. Again, wtf?
After learning the layout of the panel, I could go for the recirc button, AC button, fan speed, etc., just fine. Thankfully those weren’t (yet) integrated to touchscreen functions. But forget about playing t00nz, because all those controls were via the pushwheel.
(Wonder if Beamers still have iDrive. Heard that was loathed by quite many.)
The farmers, the resourceful and fearless ones, resorted to black market software to fix their farm equipment themselves. JD has tried really hard to keep their software proprietary, but there are those willing to pirate it. Turns out it’s not too hard to do the resets or recalibration, you just need the software and a laptop pc to do it. It was still expensive to get the bootlegged software, but cheaper than the dealer and lots faster. As far as mfg. specific PIDs, the commercially available scan tools are able to read most of those, but you still have to buy the rights to it and subscription (SAAS). But those scan tools are still $5000-$15,000 Verus, Solus) not including the extra $800 or more for the add-on and PIDs diagnostic ability.
Yep, God bless ’em, every one.
The more they try to tighten their grip, the more that slips through their fingers.
Worst they could do is void any warranty, but they’d have to show/prove “unauthorised” access.
I heard a story on the radio about the repair cost of high-tech, “safe” cars. One car owner was shocked to learn that their cracked windsheild cost $800 to replace because the safety cameras (or sensors, don’t remember exactly) had to be re-calibrated along with that. And they had several different, but similar examples.
Makes me never want to buy a new car again without getting medical coverage for it.
This seems to apply to many cars with automatic braking, lane-assist, adaptive cruise control, or other vision based safety systems. The manufacturer specifies a certain type of glass to ensure the vision system works properly. It is unclear to what degree that is known to be technically necessary, what degree is the lawyers covering the company’s liability against unknowns, and what degree is the parts department elbowing their way into the service manual to boost sales.
Regardless, the large auto glass companies generally will not willfully ignore a statement from a manufacturer that could create a liability for them.
Here, for example, is Subaru’s policy on replacement glass for use with their Eyesight system:
Subaru Position Statement
I was in Austria 15 years ago, driving with an employee of our company who lives there. His car was a Ford Taurus station wagon. NOT the same car as US named “counterpart.” Different controls. Different face. Different interior. MUCH nicer car. Anyway… windshield was fogging up. He hit a button. There was no rush of air. I asked him about it. He said “look.” The windshield cleared in about 10 seconds. The windshield actually had a very thin fine wire mesh sandwiched inside it, acting like a slight “UV” filter. When electrified it would whisk away condensation so fast. I marveled at it. But then he said “Don’t ever break one. They cost $1,000 to replace!” 
With our 2019 Outback, we replaced the glass after a friggin’ “pebble” cracked it easily on the interstate. Never had glass crack so easily and as it was less than a year old… off to the dealer (in a LARGE city in Kansas) we went!
But they said they wouldn’t install FACTORY glass and even suggested an aftermarket instead. They had a deal set-up with a few local glass shops to do the calibration for the shops AFTER the install IF it needed it.
So this is how bad the 2019 glass was and it IS the #1 complaint for the year/model (so far) for what has otherwise been a super great car. Thankfully, our glass after replacing did NOT require recalibration, so we didn’t have to drive two hours away and sit for 3 more while the shop did that work we luckily dodged after-all.
Sounds like you were lucky. How much did it cost… your insurance company? I was pricing the 2020 Outback last evening. Thanks
Luckily, the after-market glass ran about $330 and they delivered the car to my wife’s office which is a nice service. Insurance deal quoted was over four times that (but no surprise there). Also, our dealer is the best in Kansas and said they would re-calibrate it without charge IF it needed it after the install. Thankfully we didn’t have to test that with them.
It is our best car we’ve owned since my Mercedes days (back in the day)- the old 1989 SEL600 WAS an amazing car for it’s time and ran like a bat out of hell (a V8 made for the Autobahn). We had to LEARN how to drive the new Outback (as in a 2 hour overview) before we left the lot! The connection to our android phones is very well done with limited steering wheel control over Pandora, YouTube, and several other apps (you can forward the program, use the volume and it covers the basics convenience wise). We are not fans of the satellite services, and basically our phone data replaces most of what satellite offers (and adds MORE options too).
Owned now for 1 1/2 yrs. and one trip to the shop for a “firmware” upgrade is all that’s been needed. BUT… do be careful as they have a VERY pushy service program. They expect tire rotation at 6-8k miles (when they’d like to change your oil at the same time for a few hundred bucks to boot). We live too far out, AND I do ALL service except for the tough stuff anyway, so I delete a lot of emails from them (and they work your phone too). But lately they’ve taken me off most spam and they are now trying to sincerely schedule a re-call service we need to look into soon. So good with the bad I guess. 
If you are a person who lives near the dealership (and is barely able to pump your own gas), and likes expensive services, it works for you maybe. But when they “schedule” trans-axle service (flushing also) at 28k miles for ONLY $700 
(when old outbacks ran the same gears/oil for 400k miles not too long ago)— well, I looked at them like they were mad! I then clarified that was an “elective” service and didn’t impact the warranty. But they didn’t want to tell me that until I pressed the issue and “refused” that service they tried to push on us when we got the firmware fix. Hey… they were nice enough, but they just are trained to push the service; and all you have to do is say “no” and it’s all good.
We test-drove Honda, Mazda, Toyota, and Subaru and I can say we are very glad we went with the Outback in a nicer trim with the lighter off-white leather Vs. the dark interiors that just get HOT so fast here in Kansas in summer with the sun right overhead. But if it weren’t for the “wife” factor, I could have been really happy with the base model which has a lot of decent options (and for about $8k less than the top-line models) But it’s her car and so as Bugs Bunny once said, “whatever baby wants, baby gets!” 
Thanks for the reply and the good info. We live 1.5 hours each way from the dealership and expensive services are not popular with us. But I might get one anyway.
Thank B’harni (pbuh!) my (2013) Buick doesn’t have all that garbage. All this crap to keep you from rear-ending the car in front, from drifting out of your lane, from falling asleep at the wheel, from leaving your coffeemaker on when you leave the house, all that nonsense. Newer models do, but I hang onto cars with a death-grip ’til they decide on their own to go to the Great Junkyard In The Sky.
Hey sure… glad to help Helios.
Oh… AND the paddle shifting is REALLY a superbly done feature for driving the hills I see you live in 
We did Denver down to Pagosa Springs through Colorado last spring (about 500 miles in mountains) over seven days through record snowfall (a month after we got it new). Went by many icy road wrecks, and some snow packed back roads. Also went over several mountain passes other cars needed chains for. The Outback had zero issues, road straight as a razor through mixed conditions, and was very comfortable to drive in it all.
Our friends we stayed with in Denver saw us drive up and first thing said was, “hey! you got the official car of Colorado… cool!” I have to say the nicer trim is very cushy and its a fairly quiet car (compared to my old Bronco anyway!). I run Royal Purple oil in it (20k miles per oil change), and check fluids/flip filters every 8k or so. It runs cool and gets 30mpg on the 4 banger engine if not pushed too hard up the smaller “Flint Hills” where we live in Kansas. The 6 banger isn’t needed since the car “has the gears” and it’s peppy enough for passing cars on mountain roads too.
I shopped 7 months for this car So hope you don’t have to here 
Good luck!
Honestly, for a second I thought you meant you could steer using your phone. 
I love gadgets, but I’m glad my cars are ‘old’ enough that I can work on them myself. They use real metal keys, have knobs for the climate control, and I even have to work the steering wheel, accelerator, and brake myself.
One of my cars even has three pedals!
Many people I know with ‘new’ cars have a TPMS light on. When I point it out they say, “Yeah, that’s always on.” :partying_face:
For fun, here’s a how-to video on driving a 1925 Ford Model T:
And that is WHY we bought the Outback (WITH the extended warranty for the dash OS to 100k miles).
BTW: my other car is a 2000 Tahoe (which runs perfectly and is pretty clean for 220k miles, and I bought it in 2004). I have done all maintenance since getting it, know it like a wife, and hope to be driving it ten more years from now. But if I’m lucky MAYBE I’ll end up with this Outback… then :innocent:
Not the best car I owned… but my old Vette had three too (and six gears). I loved driving it with the Targa tops off on Saturdays around Austin back then. But it sucked for a commuter since you had to park well away from the “pile” to keep door dings down and man— red Vetts just GET frickin’ tickets without even trying.
Hated selling it, but hated garaging it in St Paul, MN more (after that relocation). 18” wide tires were NOT good up north 8 months out of the year. Still fun times were had for sure.
I miss manual shift… a bit. But I’m getting on without it. Certainly don’t miss it in heavy traffic. But overall it’s safer, because you don’t have to keep pulling one hand off the steering wheel to shift.
One nice thing that started to happen is aftermarket car stereo systems with built-in GPS navigation & setup for cameras (fore, aft). You can get them with USB inputs, support for cellphones (Android, iOS) plus Bluetooth for hands-free. Install one on an old car & BINGO—you’ve just bumped up to modern days. It’s so liberating to stick a 128Gb drive in the slot mounted in the glove box… and have a massive music library at your finger tips. Or even Bluetooth connect to your phone & access the music on that. After putting in a Kenwood DDX9904s head unit, my car experience was totally bumped up, well enough that I’ll probably keep my car up until I finally switch to electric.