I didn't even follow the link.
Do I think you're an obvious spammer?
Ewww, they suck! I wouldn’t even let a crack-ho wear one of those shirts. :confounded:
So what’s the deal with OSRAM LED emitters? I’ve seen some growing enthusiasm for them. Looks like at least some models are ideal for throw. Are there any current production flashlights OSRAM emitters worth considering with ?
That’s precisely the case - there are several LEDs that throw significantly better than any other LEDs which understandably causes a lot of enthusiasm.
I can’t help myself…
Lowani under two moons.
Sokath! His eyes uncovered!
And for something completely different.
Lord knows what nether regions yon digit has erstwhile probed.
Thanks for the link! I’m looking forward to seeing how these progress. Are there any production hosts using them with notable success?
Here is a stupid question. ” If a XHP 70.2 led is tested for lumen output here on BLF to 8.5K lumens @ 12v and 8 amps ( not sure if accurate ), Can a big flashlight like the GT check 10.5K lumens ” ??
I am trying to verify a lumen tube for accuracy.
Any help is appreciated. 
It all depends on the tube and its calibration. Some people have gotten 8.5K, but it was not with Maukka calibrated reference sources. It is very hard to find the right calibration. Depending on your calibration you can make it whatever output you want.
With my 6 volt Convoy L6 with Lexel FET and P1 bin 5700K xhp70.2 with Aspire 4300mah cells it pulled 19.6 amp / 5500 lumen at 1 second and 18.4 amp / 5250 lumen at 20 seconds. This is out the front which includes losses from the reflector and lens.
With a bigger light like the GT you go from 2 x 26650 to 8 x 18650 so it can pull a bit more amperage due to less voltage sag. Instead of 19 amp it can in theory do 21 or 22 amps. Because the output curve of the 70.2 as nearly maxed out, you only see a tiny bit more of output.
So it’s possible to get more output. Especially between a med size light and a big light. For example if my L6 drew 15A and a GT drew 19A. Then you might see a bigger jump in output.
As far as calibrating a Lumen Tube, you need a proper reference source. Every Led varies in output even with the same bin and you don’t always know the details of how it was measured in the first place.
So based on a Maukka calibration source, your 8.5K and 10.5K are way too high. Even for a raw led.
Thanks for the explanation JasonWW.
I also have Maukka calibrated lights and 3 different lumen tubes. The problem I’m having is with big lights that are reading low in all 3.
For example I tested a MT09R at 29.8 amps in a 6 inch tube calibrated with Maukka calibrated lights it checked 14500 lumens. Should that number be around 22K to 25K ? it will burn paper and it has a TA driver.
My 8 inch lumen tube is calibrated with a MT07S with a xhp 35 HI @ 2700 lumens. It reads 24K lumens on the MT09R but also gives 9800 lumens on another light that should be around 8600 lumens. The 6 inch tube is ok for less than 2K from what I’m seeing. Maybe the various beam patterns is the problem. 
I still think your numbers are low. ~20A in 6V XHP70.2 should be getting close to 7000 lumens, especially on a cold start. There are losses for “OTF lumens” but I wouldn’t expect it to be over 15%
According to who? Why do you think this?
I think most OTF losses are between 25 and 35 percent.
You should ask TA. He tested these same lights so he has a good database.
Maybe it is related to the Lumen Tube diameter? I have the small Tube. If I had a bigger diameter maybe the higher output lights would read differently? Maybe Maukka needs a higher output calibration light to sell?
All the professionals use large integrating spheres. This is the standard. There could be flaws in the idea of using a Lumen Tube. Maybe the use of 3 diffussion sheets is too many or not enough? Maybe the beam shape does influence the output? IDK. The tubes are way cheaper to build and seem to do a pretty good job.
I considered building a 1 meter sphere to test lights in, but it’s expensive, takes up a lot of space and I’m not that interested. I would not put all my faith in lumen numbers. Also, some people’s numbers I trust more than others. Amp draws are still a pretty good reference point in my opinion.
Considering all specifications & performance, which flashlight would you choose & why?
- Lumintop GT Mini Pro XHP50.2 (1)
* 3500 Lumens, 480m throw
* 18350 or 18650 battery
* NarsilM
* Cost: $49.95
- Lumintop FW21 Pro XHP50.2 (3)
* 100000 Lumens, 325m throw
* Anduril
* 18650 or 21700 battery
* Cost: $69.95
Choose what works best for your needs.
Neither. Not a fan of XHP50.2. It’s better suited to GT Mini, but I’ve disliked the GT Mini somewhat ever since it was released. It was a silly play off the BLF GT’s popularity, a poor man’s D1S, and not even an aesthetically pleasing light (to me).
But I see why it gets used. It’s the easiest way to put the biggest lumen numbers possible on a light. Just slap a FET and 3V XHP50.2 in everything. Nevermind the atrocious beam quality, floody nature, rapid temperature throttling, etc. It’s worse than when we started throwing SST-40s in lights and calling it a thrower LED. Like what? A domed 5050 LED? And then it was getting thrown behind FET drivers (because, again, cheap) where it’ll draw way more power than it needs to. The optimum was something like 6-7A and an efficient regulated driver around there would’ve been awesome.
Sorry for the rant. If you said I had to use it, I’d pick the GT Mini. The throw will be way more usable - the “325m” on the FW21 Pro is only at max lumens, which is only sustainable for like 5 seconds before your fingers blister. So you’d end up singeing your fingernails every time you needed to see the other side of a parking lot. But if you were going to force me to accept one as a gift, I’d say the FW21 Pro, so I could sell it.
Thank you! This is useful info. I’m not well schooled on the XHP50.2. I thought the beam pattern looked OK from photos & video, as well as the flood. But rapid temperature throttling was not covered in those. So this light essentially becomes a firecracker. It goes off. Loud bang of light, but then… it can’t handle it & must step down. So all that fanfare for nothing. I guess there’s a reason why something like the BLF GT90 has active cooling. The Mini has too focused a hotspot, while the Mini Pro looks a little better. But still… it pales in comparison to the big brother.
In terms of the size class I covered in the listing above, I’m thinking an Emisar D4SV2 would be a better candidate.
What LED emitter do you favor for a good combination of throw and spill? Are you a fan of the latest OSRAM emitters?
The D4Sv2 is really a top-tier 26650 light. Almost Q8 performance in a much smaller/lighter package, with plenty of emitter choices. Very practical balanced beam, with as much range as most people will ever need. That said, if it’s a dedicated thrower you want (like wanting to reach 250m+ for extended periods of time) I would suggest something else.
Depends what the size of the optics/reflector are and how many emitters the light has. LH351D is my current favorite 3V, 3.5mm footprint LED by a lot. It’s fairly floody (almost the same as XM-L2) in EDC-size lights though. High-CRI, decent or great tints if you buy the right bin, potential for easy dedoming/slicing to tighten the beam+warm the temp+make it rosier. I cut half the height of the dome off on all my stock or modded LH351D lights except the SC64 LE.
The new OSRAM emitters are great for getting max throw, but the beam will be significantly narrower than almost any other emitter, maybe save a dedomed XP-G2 or SST-20. I have a C8 with the 2mm^2 version and it’s a CANNON but not very practical inside 100m since the beam is so tight. Color temp choice is very limited if that’s a factor for you.
I can tell you misunderstood some of what scallywag wrote. You have to learn to seperate opinion from fact. Where he talks about beam quality, you read it as beam pattern. That is 2 different things. By quality he is probably refering to the color quality, which is not too good, but okay for most. Pattern is the physical shape and angle the light comes out.
I’m not sure what he means by it being floody. By using a bigger die led and small reflector the hot spot gets bigger. Your spill light is brighter as it’s directly related to lumens.
Short run time should be expected for all small lights that put out high lumens. I have not done any research into the FW21 Pro, but looking at its size and if it really does 10,000 lumen you can tell it will got hot very fast. This is the law of thermodynamics. So consider Turbo to only be a burst mode. Not something that can run for long. For something that can light up a football field and be so small its impressive. Not practical, but impressive.
Like I said earlier, you need to choose the light that best fits your needs.
GT90 does not have active cooling.
The GT Mini with xpl-hi has a die size of 1.9mm x 1.9mm. So that die size matched to that reflector gives a pretty small hot spot size and the spill light is a bit weak at 1200 or so lumen.
Then the GT Mini Pro has the equivalent of a 4 to 4.5mm square die (the dome adds effective area which is hard to calculate). It’s a pretty big jump in surface area like about 4 times bigger. Using the same size reflector, this causes the hot spot size to get larger and now the spill light goes from 1200 lumen to 3500 lumen. Your spill is lighting up things much more than the Mini.
So there are always pros and cons. For example, between the Mini and Mini Pro, do prefer the smaller hot spot or larger hot spot? With both lights set to 1200 lumen, both will last a few minutes. The Mini gives you much longer distances compared to the Pro as well as appears brighter simply because the smaller hot spot concentrates it’s 1200 lumen into a smaller area. The Pro spreads it’s 1200 lumen over a larger area, so it will appear dimmer. A tighter focus looks brighter because it increases “intensity”.
The Emisar D4Sv2 is a TIR style light, no reflector. It creates a noticeably different beam pattern. The hot spot tends to be a bit bigger and the spill light is noticably less. Keep this in mind concerning your usage needs.
For instance, I personally use my lights for walking at night and I prefer reflector based lights as I can shine the main beam forward and the spill light illuminates the ground in front of me. With TIR lights I find the ground is not illuminated well so I have to wave the light back and forth from straight ahead to down back and forth. It’s a bit annoying.
There is no such thing as a good combination of throw and spill. It all depends on what you think is good.
It seems you have narrowed down your choices to a size and ramping UI. All 3 lights are similar in size that are easy to carry and pocketable. Tell us what your other needs are. Do you need a certain distance? Or a certain run time at a certain distance? What are you using it to do? Are you picky about color temperature? Do you prefer NarsilM, Anduril or RampingIOS?
Sometimes you just have to buy a light and see how it works for you. If it’s perfect, good. If it’s not perfect, you find a light that corrects one of its flaws and see how that one works. After a while you see that certain designs fit certain situations.
Anyway, I hope that helps.