[Update]Wurkkos dual LEDs 21700 Headlamp design Photos/UI update~

Yes, please keep them hidden but available.

If you are lucky you will never need SOS, beacon, or strobe as an emergency signal.

But if you are not lucky, it is very valuable to have all three of these features as they each provide a unique capability for very different situations.

It would be helpful to have some hints in the instruction manual so people can better understand when to use these features because while most people know what SOS is for, many have never used a beacon or realize how visible a strobe would be during daylight hours.

Include LOL mode, too. It’s only 1 extra blink.

Intrested please LH351D 5000k for flood and SST20 5000k for throw.

I tried to tweak the UI a little bit, put a bit more emphasis on accessing Moonlight and Turbo mode more easily as well as keeping strobe modes available but hidden. I hope this chart is easy to follow. Any feedback is welcome. THX.

Can the light be locked out with a quick half-twist of the tailcap? If so, just put the battery-check on first-connection, just like my MH20. Why waste a 3click or 4click for that?

My GTmicro, ’mini, Q8, etc., all doubleblink on first connection to power. Just swap that with blinking out the cell voltage instead. Like with my MH20, a quick untwist-then-retwist blinks out the voltage and it’s done. No wasted clickyslots.

Frankly, I wish that would’ve been done on all my doubleblink lights…

I guess so, as I assume the threads are anodized as usual in Sofirn‘s/Wurkkos’s products. I also agree that it would be nice if the battery status is being indicated when the tailcap is tightened. This should be feasible for Sofirn to manage but it depends on their engineer‘s and Mark‘s decision.

HD20 will not blink out the voltage. It is meant to indicate its battery status by a colorful illuminated switch button (as many of Sofirn‘s lights). Personally, I would not want a flashlight to blink out the voltage automatically. There might be certain situations where starting a flashlight needs to be unobtrusive (e.g. during night and you just want to check something by using moonlight mode without waking up your spouse). Most people here will probably know what I mean. :-D

Turbo should be kiked out from cycle low~~med~~>hi.
Changing of flood/throw is difficult and takes a lot of time.

For example I walk using flood light, then I want to look further, and turn on max throw.and than go back to flood.

Combination click+hold can be used for changing light type. Flood>throw>both

thank you for the feedback, we will think about it and adjust the UI better

Thank you for all your efforts. They are greatly appreciated as I have learned from your posts and studied the manuals (even for lights I do not own) which you have provided at:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1e1IWuBMaDQu-YjuigGpMwdUPErdUrMhe

Below are my personal opinions, but please take them as advisement only and make your own final decision, as I am not aware of everything you took into consideration before making your decisions.

"1x click" could be more clearly be stated as "1 click"

"2x click" could be more clearly be stated as "2 clicks"

"3x click" could be more clearly be stated as "3 clicks"

"4x click" could be more clearly be stated as "4 clicks"

"Cycle to standard strobe mode" could be more simply be stated as "Cycle to Strobe mode"

"Cycle to SOS strobe mode" could be more simply be stated as"Cycle to SOS mode"

"Cycle to Beacon strobe mode" could be more simply be stated as"Cycle to Beacon mode"

In the section "When the headlamp is OFF", after using "2x click" to Strobe, SOS, or Beacon mode I am assuming it is "1x click" to "Turn OFF" but this was not clearly stated for those modes. Maybe to be more clear the"1x click" "Turn OFF" line in the chart should be the bottom line of that section and state "1 click" "Turn OFF from any of these modes" and use a similar type wording ("1 click" "Return to previous standard mode from any of these modes") in the "When the headlamp is ON" section. Or have both the original "1x click" line and also a bottom "1x click" line in the chart so it is very clear (but that would be more words which is not always best). But it is OK as is, it just was not as obvious to me as your instructions for the rest of the chart were.

It was not clear if both LEDs are on at full power in Strobe, SOS, and Beacon mode like they are in the Turbo mode.

It would not be a true "Electronic Lockout" if moonlight remains on after a "Long press" while in "4x click" lockout mode. I would not want my headlamp to discharge unexpectedly while in my backpack. I would have it locked out mechanically by un-twisting the tail cap or head but others may not. The mechanical un-twist lockout method should also be mentioned in the manual as some may not know about that.

Your choice for the sequential order of "Strobe, SOS, and Beacon" is the best compromise. Strobe is the mode most people expect first. SOS would be the most important emergency mode. Beacon is the mode probably used the most but the order you have chosen is easy to remember and what most people would probably expect.

"Click" or "Long Press" to change brightness levels is the most difficult decision as there are pros and cons for each method. With a flashlight I can live with either but with a headlamp I would probably prefer "Click" to change brightness levels because (in the most difficult situations where I may be using a headlamp) I have an easier time getting to the correct level I want when doing it this way while wearing a headlamp which is moving around on my head while I "Click" or "Long Press". But if you use "Click" for brightness level changes then you must also use "Long Press" for OFF. It is probably best to choose the most common method as you have done because that is what most people expect and would want.

I do not know the specific mechanism as to how the proposed "3x click" "Check battery function" will operate (maybe different colors and/or blink patterns on the switch's internal LEDs to indicate the voltage) but In addition to that I would also like to have a low voltage battery warning that occurs automatically while the headlamp is on and is also very noticeable while I am wearing the headlamp on my head (as I will not be able to see the switch). Maybe something like a blink sequence that occurs occasionally as low voltage is approached and then more frequently and finally almost continuously right before the headlamp light cuts out due to low voltage (and I hope this headlamp will have true built-in low voltage protection besides just a low voltage warning).

I do like lights that have a way to keep the switch's internal LED illuminated while the light is off because it helps me find the light in the dark. But please provide an option to turn this feature on and off and do not make it too bright or breathing.

I also agree with forum member AEDe that Turbo should not be in the standard mode cycle (unless is it sustainable for more than a few minutes) and agree with AEDe that it would be innovative to have a more convenient way to very easily change between "Spotlight and Floodlight on" "Spotlight only", or "Floodlight only".

Oh I like this alot. Ive been waiting for a new headlamp and this one hits all the marks so far.

I didnt read the whole thread, but was the flood emitter a high CRI SST20?

Thank you AEDe and roostre for your valuable feedback. I take your suggestions seriously as you probably have much more experience with headlamps than I do. AEDe for instance, you provided us with some great on-site pictures using your Panda headlamp some months ago. So, to make a long story short: I have tried to simplify the UI according to your input as well as to make HD20 more convenient to operate.

I had the idea to include an "off mode" for each LED in the standard mode order. The benefit is that we can spare the triple click to adjust between spotlight, floodlight or both. Each LED can be accessed and controlled easily in its brightness by two commands: Hold or Click'n Hold. What do you guys think of that? Would that be convenient and easy to memorize at the same time without losing too much functionality that a dual emitter light can provide?

I also agree that an accidentally triggered moonlight from lockout is not what we want. So, I would change that to a temporary or momentary moonlight as long as someone keeps the button pressed.

@Mark (Wurkkos):

I hope you and Sofirn will be able to wait things out until we have a decent UI that most customers will feel happy with. I think we are very close to saying "Yep, that's what we want." :-) Without meaning to be nitpicking I think that some former lights were launched a bit too early in the first place and fortunately became much better afterwards due to reasonable UI changes, e.g. Wurkkos FC11. I would like HD20 to start with a great UI from the very beginning.

Would sure like to see this UI in an FSM implementation. Should not be difficult to do, being so close to how Anduril works.

For the UI why not use anduril? It has a verry nice way of handeling 2 led channels, and would be a selling point to everyone familiar with it. putting anduril on it would probably tip me personally into buying it.

This UI is looking pretty fantastic so far.

My concern is that if both LEDs are cycled to the “Off” mode, will the light itself technically still be on? How will that be handled in mode memory - for example will turning it “On” not activate either emitter then?

Not an official answer at all but my personal interpretation:

  • Andúril would probably need to be configured to the driver's characteristics (e.g. it needs to fit to the corresponding MCU, NTP sensor), its thermal calibration needs to be properly carried out from factory in order to work as intended.
  • Moreover, Sofirn/Wurkkos would need someone with in-depth expertise to have Andúril tailored to HD20. I don't know how much time someone like ToyKeeper or anyone else familiar with FSM is able and willing to spend for this important task. Lately, my impression on BLF is that more and more manufacturers - small or big ones - get interested in selling their lights with Andúril UI. This trend will inevitably lead to a situation of delays in UI development with only a handful of coders/programmers experienced with FSM.
  • Last but not least, you already named a quite important term..."a selling point to everyone familiar with it". As much as I like Andúril and all of its features, it takes a considerable learning curve to understand and memorize all of its great features. Now, let's just switch for a moment from the customer's point of view to the seller's point of view. If your customer service team gets a ton of questions asked from inexperienced users who just refuse to read the manual (for whatever reasons), you need to have well-trained employees familiar with Andúril and probably a significantly higher headcount. If customers return their lights in large amounts due to misinterpretation of the UI (e.g. being trapped somewhere in the UI), sales managers may reconsider using a complex UI for a light targed for the masses. Please do not confuse an OEM manufacturer like Sofirn with someone like Hank Wang (Noctigon/Emisar) who has clearly focused more or less on one UI only for all of his lights and who has a smaller variety of lights for sale. Sofirn's or Wurkkos's largest target group is the "standard customer" who apparently needs a short and concise manual with a foolproof UI. Taking these circumstances into account, I'm even more impressed that they still have two open ears for a considerably smaller target group of us flashoholics/nerds and that they continuously try to fulfill our special wishes, too. I think they would like to combine the best of both worlds to reach every potential customer - who wouldn't?

Personally, I would like to see a stripped version of Andúril with less complexity (no floor/ceiling configuration, no blinky modes, no AUX support, but with simple stepped modes and ramping as well as with a good thermal configuration) that could be adopted more easily in large scale. To be honest, I really like the FC11 UI which IMHO only lacks a manually configurable thermal stepdown.

Very good observation and an even more intriguing question, too. If someone cycles both LEDs to OFF I would consider the light to be in OFF-mode the same way if someone just clicks it to OFF. With mode memory in charge, I would suggest Wurkkos to use the battery status indicator in the switch to light up for 5s (likewise to most of Sofirn's lights that light up the indicator when being turned on) to indicate that the OFF modes are set to both LEDs. But maybe there are more, better ideas how to deal with this?

Ramping UI may be also interesting. Hold - change only output, click+hold - change throw\flood ratio with constant output. (E-zoom:)

Lux-Perpetua, I think Hold - for change output of current Led(or both) , and click+hold for changing throw-flood-both is more convinient. You can save 3 combinations and change it fast. It is similar to Panda 3 UI.

Exactly how is that? Implemented on what light? All I know of is tint blending on the LT1.

Sofirn is working on more Anduril lights, so I don't see a big problem in using an FSM compatible driver.

IF25 had tint-ramping and although it may have been coded independent of Anduril had some very similar functions.

Personally I would go with “Hold” for brightness adjustment and “Click+hold” for cycling spot/flood/both emitters. Leaves double-click open for turbo/blinky modes and doesn’t run into the problem with both emitters being set to “Off”.

Having the indicator LED light up (maybe even with a flashing pattern specifically for the scenario?) when both are set to “Off” does seem to be the best solution if the separate output selection UI is used though.

Dual-channel ramping could be cool, but the UI would be similar to the IF25 and I agree completely that you can’t bloat/complicate the UI too much for the market/niche Wurkkos is targeting.

thank you for all feedback, can’t wait to realize this model .will update to factory to do some modify. Thank you Lux-Perpetua collect all information