Anduril ... 2?

In the abstract I think it would make more sense to have lockout at 3C, but I would keep it at 4C. My reasoning is that not only do Anduril 1 and Narsil use that, but other lights seem to be adopting it too. We will never have consistent shortcuts across all user interfaces, but it is nice when they develop, and is worth encouraging.

Exactly. That’s why I’m not sure. By itself, I’d say it’s an upgrade to make lockout shorter. In the context of larger trends though, I’m not sure if it’s a good idea or not. I didn’t do it last time because I wanted to maintain cross-UI consistency… and I’ve kinda regretted it ever since. So maybe I can do it this time, or maybe I shouldn’t, for the same reasons as last time.

ZebraLight uses 4C for battcheck, so it would still be consistent with some lights. :wink:

Most valuable clicks are :
1 click
hold
double click
click&hold
Using firmware where battcheck is click&hold from off, so you need to press only twice. Or you can use it for lockout

My main concern is that a locked out light should always stay locked out until I unlock it.

I would not want my light to "exit" lockout mode unintentionally while it is in my pocket or bag after something accidentally pressed against the switch a few times.

I prefer an electronic lockout (click sequence) instead of a mechanical lockout (untwist parts) unless I am storing the light for a long time period (and want to avoid parasitic battery drain).

I am not opposed to using one click sequence to "enter" lockout mode and a different click sequence to "exit" lockout mode or to click sequences that are different from other user interfaces but I do understand that consistency is preferable when possible.

If the same click sequence is used to both "enter" and "exit" lockout mode, then I am more interested in a lockout mode click sequence that may be harder to use but very unlikely to accidentally "exit" rather than a lockout mode click sequence that is easy to "enter".

If 2C is turbo and 3C is LOCK you may need turbo and get the flashlight locked…… I think It’s really dangerous

Mashing the wrong combinations is a user issue. This can be alleviated somewhat through design but ultimately the user needs to hit the right combos otherwise its not really an input output system just a mash and hope system.

Anduril 2.0? Sounds great to me! The future of flashlights is exciting because it just keeps getting better. I’m waiting for a massive shift in thermo management where higher power can be sustained for longer periods of time, like a moving diaphragm that draws in cooler ambient air and pushes out the heat. Just thinking out loud. Go ToyKeeper :+1:

I’m still not sure about 3C/4C for battcheck/lockout or lockout/battcheck.

4C makes lockout harder to hit by accident, but also harder to use. And on some lights, it gets used a lot because the lights turn on easily by accident. So it seems like it’s worth optimizing, to make a common operation easier.

The main concern I have is compatibility. It could be a pain for people who switch between old lights and new lights. Most of Anduril2’s other changes are less likely for people to trip over, or at least wouldn’t happen as often… but lockout is used quite a bit.

I’m using a FW3A at work about everyday and always twisting/untwisting the head because it’s faster than 3C / 4C to lock / unlock it.
Hitting 3C and 4C doesn’t make a great difference pratically because 4C only needs a fraction of a second more. What would make a difference is if the flashlight was automatically turned on after unlocking it. With this feature, it would be better to lock / unlock it with 4C (harder to hit by accident).

I agree with this, I personally prefer loosening the tailcap for lockout, BUT, I would actually use the digital if it was “immediate” in the light’s activation afterwards.

For example, it would treat the 4th click as the same as 1C when you release it, and go to your memorized mode. Or, if you hold the 4th click, it will act as though you are doing a 1H and go to the bottom of the ramp. Lastly, if you add a 5th click, 5C, then it will behave like 2C and go to the top of the ramp… I don’t know if I explained that clearly, but to me, that makes the most sense as far as usability.

To summarize, I would make Lockout into more of a 3C + standard operation (1C, 1H, 2C, etc.). This would be very easy to remember because all you have to do in lockout is… whatever you were going to do, +3C (in front).

This would effectively remove a pause and 1C from the current process, and be much smoother, I think.

Anduril 2 already turns on while exiting lockout mode. It also has an optional function to automatically lock the light after being in “off” mode for N minutes.

So the question is about which of these two styles it should use:

  • Faster style
    • Off 3C -> Lockout
    • Off 4C -> Batt check
    • Lockout 3C -> On (memorized level)
    • Lockout 3H -> On (ramp floor)
  • More compatible style
    • Off 3C -> Batt check
    • Off 4C -> Lockout
    • Lockout 4C -> On (memorized level)
    • Lockout 4H -> On (ramp floor)

Additionally, to configure the auto-lock function…

Lockout 5C -> Auto-lock config menu (choose how many minutes before it locks)

Lockout 5H -> Disable auto-lock

… and to configure aux LEDs:

Lockout 7C -> next aux LED pattern

Lockout 7H -> next aux LED color

The faster style spaces apart the lockout mode functions so they all have a gap between. 3/5/7 clicks. The more compatible style would be 4/5/7 so the user is more likely to get the wrong thing by accident. However, the auto-lock thing could be moved… perhaps to 10C/10H. Then it’d be 4/7/10 clicks.

The slower / more compatible style also increases the chance of accidentally going into momentary (5C) instead of lockout (4C), since they would be only one click apart. It’s a complaint I’ve heard a few times, that people end up in momentary and then can’t figure out why it won’t unlock.

In any case, turning the light on from lockout is faster than before. Instead of 6 time units (4C, pause, 1C), it’s down to 3 or 4.

Clearly I didn’t read before I came up with and typed all of that… now that I went through all that explaining I realize that of course you already thought of that! :person_facepalming: , because you’re Toykeeper :sunglasses: .

I would prefer the faster option, because quickly getting from lockout, to light, is the whole purpose of the change.

Is the timing in Anduril 2 the same (from lockout) as when unlocked now, to where if you click your second click within .5 second or so after the light is on, it still jumps to the top of the ramp? (so like 3C + 1C to get to the top of the ramp quickly from lockout)?

How do you go from Lockout -> Off?

The button mappings so far are listed in a table at the bottom of the manual.

It doesn’t currently have a shortcut from lockout to off. Unlocking the light turns it on, and then one more click turns it off. So it’s still 4C (ish) to return to off mode, but with a pause before the final click.

No, it doesn’t currently have a shortcut from lockout to ramp ceiling. It’s an option I’ve been considering though. Was thinking a couple days ago about giving lockout the exact same button mappings as the “off” mode, except with 2 extra clicks at the beginning. Basically, it would handle the first two as a momentary moon, then pass control to the “off” mode to handle the rest.

This would kind of get in the way though, like instead of 7C to configure aux LEDs, 7C would take the user to momentary mode. It’d be 9C for aux config, and unclear whether that’s for “off” mode or lockout… and then maybe 11C for lockout’s aux config? And 5C would take the user from lockout mode to … lockout mode. No point in that. After doing something like batt check, it would then go back to the regular “off” mode instead of going back to lockout, so it might need an extra facility to track whether the user wants the regular “off” mode or the safer-but-less-convenient lockout mode when they turn the light off.

Basically, it’s an interesting idea but it has some odd side effects and brings up questions I don’t have answers for. So for now I think maybe lockout should only have direct access to the core ramp functions — floor, mem, and maybe ceiling.

Thanks! Hmm, I have never needed to go from Lockout -> On, but I always use Lockout -> Off. But it’s no problem, I can flash my own lights to do that.

I’m really looking forward to use this. :slight_smile:

There is only at work that I get used to twist / untwist the head of an FW3A to lock the button, but with my other Anduril flashlights, I find the 2 levels momentary of the lockout super handy. I don’t know why I ended up using it like this at work. I will try to force myself to use the 4C instead of twisting / untwisting it.

I don’t know if it’s only me but I find a 3C to be more “intuitive” than a 4C, it’s something that I can do very quickly without counting so I guess that having the 3C for something that is used very often (lock/unlock) sounds pratical.
I’m used to 3C for Batt Check and more recently to go to Beacon but I guess that using 4C instead with Anduril 2 wouldn’t be difficult to get used to.

The 3/5/7 clicks arrangement sounds good. 10C/10H for Simple UI also, so for me and I’m only speaking for me, the question would be more about the Momentary which would need to be reaffected to a different number of clicks.
Do people use the Momentary often ? For me the “2 levels momentary” of the lockout is way more usefull so I wouldn’t be bothered if the Momentary would need more clicks to be activated.

Going from lockout to off isn’t really very different than before. There may be no explicit shortcut, but due to the way things work out, it’s still pretty similar.

Before:

  • click, click, click, click

After:

  • click, click, hold, click
  • - or -
  • click, click, click, pause, click

They both pass through ramp mode on the way to “off”, but only for a moment. It’s still four presses and releases… but with slightly different timing.

Going to lockout is faster though, and turning the light on is faster.

Because of this, I’m kind of wondering if I should remap one more thing…

Before:

  • Lockout 4C, 1C -> ramp
  • Ramp 1C, 4C -> lockout
  • Ramp 3C -> change ramp style

After:

  • Lockout 3C -> ramp
  • Ramp 3C -> lockout
  • Ramp ??? -> change ramp style

This way, for people who prefer lockout to the “off” mode, it’d be easier and more symmetrical to go between ramp and lockout. I would just need to move the ramp style toggle somewhere else.

Or perhaps all the lockout stuff should be on 4C instead of 3C. Still not sure.

I prefer 4C. Lockout should prevent accidental activation. Although the chance with 3C is already low, 4C is even better and just one more click and consistent with the old UI. Also I suggest to make as many config menus as possible with H.

Lockout 4C → ramp
Lockout 4H → ramp floor
Lockout 5C → auto-lock config menu
Lockout 5H → disable auto-lock
Lockout 7C → aux LEDs: next pattern
Lockout 7H → aux LEDs: next color

Ramp 1C → off
Ramp 1H → ramp (up, with reversing)
Ramp 2C → go to ceiling / return to previous
Ramp 2H → ramp (down)
Ramp 3C → go to turbo / return to previous
Ramp 3H → tint ramping (on some lights)
Ramp 4C → lockout
Ramp 4H
Ramp 5C → momentary mode
Ramp 5H → sunset timer on, and add 5 minutes
Ramp 6C → enable manual memory at current brightness
Ramp 6H → disable manual memory
Ramp 7C → change ramp style (smooth / stepped)
Ramp 7H → ramp config mode