Tesla's new 4680 - We're gonna need a bigger flashlight

TeslaFire cells, 99000000mAH, of course.

These batteries make no sense in flashlights.
You don’t understand that the 40-50% increase in capacity and power is only noticeable in Tesla cars? Actually the larger the cell, the higher the car range will be. 4680 is not an ideal size. It’s just the maximum cell size they currently are able to produce.
But in a flashlight there wouldn’t be any difference between 5x18650 and 1x4680.

But it should fit (more or less) into the space of 4×18650.

As Lightbringer points out it would fit in a 4x18650 space…
and fill the voids around the cells, providing more energy in the same volume - and eventually more available power/current.

Some prefer 8x18650 lights to 4x18650 because of ergonomy.
But others prefer it because of increased runtime.
Tell them that they’d be better off with 18650.

I cant seem to find any info on weight of a 4680
looks to me like a lot of copper

must weigh a ton!!!

They claim the power/weight ratio is better than a tabbed cell.

Tesla 2170s are 250-260Wh/kg.

Back in August Musk tweeted that useful 400Wh/kg batteries are 3 or 4 years away.

That gives an upper and lower bound for the weight.

cool
this is the long lost single-A battery
the A cell!!

Cool - that vintage battery would be ideal for electronic tail switches!

The press reports I read didn’t watch or didn’t understand the presentation. The form factor and tabless design are only part of what they are attempting. and they didn’t show the secret sauce…

It is pretty easy to connect the dots:

Model S Plaid 0-60 < 2.0 Seconds Top Speed 200mph. Estimated Range 520 miles.

Protoypes of the new battery are already in test vehicles. Musk says the prototypes are easy compared to bringing this to volume production.

There’s no way to install part of a 4680 backwards and ruin your flashlight, like you can with 4x 18650, so that’s a win. Just need reverse polarity protection, and that’s easy to do.

I guess if you’re happy with all your 5x18650 flashlights, feel free to not buy any 4680 lights. But I do hope they catch on with the big LiIon manufacturers and make their way to flashlights. With a new 4680 version, I would buy a new Q8, FT03 and D4s (at least).

Is someone starting a group buy? I’m in for 8 units. :innocent:

Depending on price, I’d probably take 2. Hell, if I had to take a rasp to make the inside of a Q8 tube round, I’d do it. And those springs can be replaced or at worst cut down.

Went to bed dreaming/designing 2S 4680 driving XHP 70.2 into overdrive.

BIG light!

edit: After some analysis, better to use 8.4 Volts to overdrive the nominal 6V 70.2

I thought the convention was to add a zero to the end so as not to confuse a cylindrical cell with some tiny button battery. I guess 46800 was too long for Elon, and he must be saving a fortune in ink for documentation with just 4680.

Anyone seen anything about what the actual chemistry is?

Instead of 21700 Teslans have been saying 2170 for a long time now, too.

Wasn’t it hyphenated, though? Ie, “21-70”?

Yes.

Watch the presentation. It is about an hour long but covers all your questions and more. Starts by explaing why they need the new battery. Somehow the press just didn’t understand.

This link skips the shareholder meeting and starts at battery day.

If you don’t want to sit through why they are doing this, skip to 1:08:20

My summary:

Tesla needs several TWh/yr battery production to meet storage and vehicle demand.

46mm costs less and improves energy density

Tabless greatly reduces internal resistance. > higher charge and discharge currents. Lower resistive heating losses. > better power to weight ratio.

The 5x energy +16% range 6x power graphic doesn’t include chemestry or other improvments. It represents tabless form factor alone. Tesla’s protype batteries are much better.

Tesla are ramping a 10GWh/year pilot plant now. Prototype cells have been in vehicles for months. They’ve made 10’s of thousands of cells but the yield isn’t great.

Varioius cathodes, all zero Cobalt. Fe for storage and low cost EV. NiMn for most EVs. High Ni for maxium energy density. (Tesla Semi mentioned. I suspect aircraft too)

Several process improvments to reduce cost and improve scalablity.

49% reduction in cell cost per kWh.

2 to 3 “Tesla” years to reach full production. They are always late, so 2.5 to 4 years??

Actually, the 5 digit system was to follow the button type cell. The first two digits for diameter in approximate millimetres, the three last digits for height in tenths of a millimetre. As cylindrical cells have approximate dimensions, the resolution of height in 0.1mm is redundant.