The There Are No Stupid Questions Thread

[GNOMBEZ]

@JasonWW

@GNOMBEZ

So I’ve been doing some research on the Olight Warrior Mini and noticed a warning in its manual that says:

“Do not short-circuit the tail switch cap with the ring surrounding it. the short circuit in this case will result in an electrical discharge of below 3mA between them, and may lead to a complete battery drain if its in this state too long.”

Can anyone explain this in laymans terms to someone who understands nothing about electricity?
Will it just drain the battery and will need to be recharged?
Or will this damage the battery?

I don’t see this same warning in the manual for my Olight S2R II baton, but am wondering if it does have the same risk.

With both flashlights ends being a magnet, I would think your always at risk of making this contact just by sticking it to magnetic surfaces?
Or even just change in my pocket sticking to it.

Also, is there somewhere more appropriate to be asking this question?

Lithium ion batteries can be ruined if their voltage should ever drop below 2.5 volts. The chemical structure breaks down. So any type of small drain on the battery can be a concern. A 3mA drain on a fully charged 3,000mah battery would take over a month to drain down. So it’s not too big a concern as you might think. Just don’t leave it stuck to a bare metal object for several days.

When people test flashlights they always test them for parasitic drain. Most people also will give the battery caps a twist in order to break the connection and eliminate parasitic drain when they’re storing their flashlights. If you’re really concerned about it you can get a protected battery.

There’s a lot of trade-offs with protected cells, so if a protected cell will fit in your light and it’s reduced amperage is not an issue, you might consider getting a protected cell. It’s a battery with a little added on circuit that shuts off power if the battery voltage gets too high, too low or draws too much power/short circuits. Some might even shut off if the battery gets too hot.

Protected cells tend to cost a lot more, are longer than normal and have a maximum amperage output typically around 5A to 7A, but some are higher.

Since you need at least a 10A cell it means you need a protection circuit of at least 10A. There are very few choices. One a company in the US. They offer a 20A circuit on a good OEM high capacity cell. LG MJ1 Protected

Its fairly cheap, but you need to make sure your light can fit a 70mm long battery.

Another is this Imalent 3000mah cell with a 15A protection circuit for $20. It is also 70mm long.

I see Manker makes a 18650 cell with built in charging. You should ask them if it will fit the MC13 and if you can buy it separately.

Nitecore and Fenix do make some protected 18650 with built in charging and they are really expensive. Maybe these are what you were referring to earlier. The problem I see with these 2 brands is they don’t say how much current will trip the protection circuit. Is it 5A, 10A, 15A? I don’t know. If you can find out, they might be worth buying.

Thanks for taking the time to type that all up to explain to me.

Its occurring to me that this might just be a little too advanced for me. I dont think i’m going to be able to understand a lot of what might need to be understood to own and operate these flashlights.

I just had my second OlightS2RBatonII crap out on me today…

[JasonWW]

@GNOMBEZ

Thank you for taking the time to type that all up to explain to me.
Its occurring to me that this is just too advanced for me and I am not going to be able to understand what’s needed to be understood to own and operate these flashlights. I just had my second Olight S2R baton II crap out on me today, so I think I’m just going to have to quit.
Later guys.

Olight has good warrantees. Contact them to get it fixed or replaced.

For people who are not into lights, like my family members, I usually get them a light like the Eagle Eye X2R and put a protected battery in it. It has a mechanical switch so when it’s off there is no drain on the battery. You plug a usb cable into the light to recharge. It’s pretty simple.

Sorry about the bad luck, having two S2R going out seems really unlucky.

[merlot]

What’s the maximum amount of current I could run through the FET in a BLF A6 driver? I’m building an S21A with triple LH351D LEDs powered by a high drain 21700 cell. If I’ve understood the relevant graphs, its likely to be drawing around 15A on full blast. Is this going to melt the driver?

[Bardo219]

What does light look like below 2000k?

[JasonWW]

@Bardo219

What does light look like below 2000k?

It starts to go orangish.

[Lightbringer]

@Bardo219

What does light look like below 2000k?

[GNOMBEZ]

[quote=JasonWW]

@GNOMBEZ

I know the Olight batteries in the Warrior Pro and M2R Pro are modified like you described in such a way they cannot even use any other battery.

CORRECT

However, I’m pretty sure my S2R Baton II can at least use other 18650’s but just cant charge them.

CORRECT

So I’m not sure that its battery is as modified as the ones in those flashlights.

Edit: Some research of my own suggests my battery IS dual polarity, which is what your talking about?

YES

Maybe I could cover the end of the battery in electrical tape so only the button top was exposed?

VERY RISKY AS THE SPRING COULD SLOWLY PUSH THE TAPE OFF TO THE SIDE

How about this?

- YouTube

(video is only a minute long)

[JasonWW]

[quote=GNOMBEZ]

@JasonWW

@GNOMBEZ

I know the Olight batteries in the Warrior Pro and M2R Pro are modified like you described in such a way they cannot even use any other battery.

CORRECT

However, I’m pretty sure my S2R Baton II can at least use other 18650’s but just cant charge them.

CORRECT

So I’m not sure that its battery is as modified as the ones in those flashlights.

Edit: Some research of my own suggests my battery IS dual polarity, which is what your talking about?

YES

Maybe I could cover the end of the battery in electrical tape so only the button top was exposed?

VERY RISKY AS THE SPRING COULD SLOWLY PUSH THE TAPE OFF TO THE SIDE

How about this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9ARNGvIrxY

(video is only a minute long)

Might be fine.

[MascaratumB]

Which would be a good AWG size to measure draw on flashlights?
10? 12? 8? Thicker? Thinner?

Also, is there a good alternative with “normal” wires ?

Thanks in advance!

[JasonWW]

@MascaratumB

Which would be a good AWG size to measure draw on flashlights?
10? 12? 8? Thicker? Thinner?

Also, is there a good alternative with “normal” wires ?

Thanks in advance!

I use short piece of 8 ga as that’s what I had handy. You don’t want it to be too long or too skinny because it’ll just add resistance. Being that thick though, does make it a little hard to bend and work with. So if I’m doing an amp draw on a smaller light where the amperage is fairly weak, I have a second wire that’s like 14 ga and a little longer that’s a lot easier to bend around and hold into place. When it comes to lower amperages a little extra resistance is no big deal.

What would the application be for this good alternative? Are you talkin about from the driver to the LED or do you mean for taking amp draws?

[MascaratumB]

@JasonWW

I use short piece of 8 ga as that’s what I had handy. You don’t want it to be too long or too skinny because it’ll just add resistance. Being that thick though, does make it a little hard to bend and work with. So if I’m doing an amp draw on a smaller light where the amperage is fairly weak, I have a second wire that’s like 14 ga and a little longer that’s a lot easier to bend around and hold into place. When it comes to lower amperages a little extra resistance is no big deal.

What would the application be for this good alternative? Are you talkin about from the driver to the LED or do you mean for taking amp draws?

Thanks for your reply Jason! :+1:
I was also thinking that 8AWG would be a good “thickness”, despite the thoughness when bending it!
My use will be to check the draw in my lights, I don’t have many “hot rods” so maybe I can use a thinner (12AWG) wire? Or that would be too less?

The alternative I was referring to was using a different kind of wire, like “single core electric wire”, in copper of course. The purpose would be the same, measuring battery drain.

[JasonWW]

@MascaratumB

@JasonWW

I use short piece of 8 ga as that’s what I had handy. You don’t want it to be too long or too skinny because it’ll just add resistance. Being that thick though, does make it a little hard to bend and work with. So if I’m doing an amp draw on a smaller light where the amperage is fairly weak, I have a second wire that’s like 14 ga and a little longer that’s a lot easier to bend around and hold into place. When it comes to lower amperages a little extra resistance is no big deal.

What would the application be for this good alternative? Are you talkin about from the driver to the LED or do you mean for taking amp draws?

Thanks for your reply Jason! :+1:
I was also thinking that 8AWG would be a good “thickness”, despite the thoughness when bending it!
My use will be to check the draw in my lights, I don’t have many “hot rods” so maybe I can use a thinner (12AWG) wire? Or that would be too less?

The alternative I was referring to was using a different kind of wire, like “single core electric wire”, in copper of course. The purpose would be the same, measuring battery drain.

Wait, are you going to be measuring high amp draws or super low parasitic drain?

All of the stuff I talked about above concerns the higher amp draws. If you’re going to be measuring very low currents such as parasitic drain I would not recommend the clamp style ammeter. For that I use test leads on my DMM. The clamp style meters are great four typical amp draws but when it comes to super low amperage it just doesn’t have enough accuracy.

I don’t think single-core or any type of solid copper wire is a good choice for amp draws because you really need to get a good connection on both the battery and on the edge of the battery tube. Having the soft copper strands spread out helps to make a better electrical connection.

[MascaratumB]

@JasonWW

Wait, are you going to be measuring high amp draws or super low parasitic drain?

All of the stuff I talked about above concerns the higher amp draws. If you’re going to be measuring very low currents such as parasitic drain I would not recommend the clamp style ammeter. For that I use test leads on my DMM. The clamp style meters are great four typical amp draws but when it comes to super low amperage it just doesn’t have enough accuracy.

With the clampmeter I would be measuring higher amps, putting the wire through the “clamps”. Like my triples or quads on Turbo, not the low amps or parasitic drain I wanna see how much my Convoy S6 triple with Luxeon V and a driver w/ Bistro HD OTSM is pulling from the Sony VTC6, as example.

I have a UT201E clampmeter on the way to me so I will be able to use it for that purpose.
Then I will try to order a (better) DMM to read low amps and parasitic drain.

@JasonWW

I don’t think single-core or any type of solid copper wire is a good choice for amp draws because you really need to get a good connection on both the battery and on the edge of the battery tube. Having the soft copper strands spread out helps to make a better electrical connection.

Thanks for the complementary reply! I understand what you say, so I’ll stick to the other type of wire with soft copper strands

[MascaratumB]

How can I calculate the approximate output of a light from the Amps it is pulling?
Saying: I have light with 3xLuxeon V 4000K that is pulling ~21.1A from a 18650 cell.

How can I calculate without a luxmeters/integrated spheres?

Thanks in advance!

[thefreeman]

@MascaratumB

Thanks for your reply Jason! :+1:
I was also thinking that 8AWG would be a good “thickness”, despite the thoughness when bending it!
My use will be to check the draw in my lights, I don’t have many “hot rods” so maybe I can use a thinner (12AWG) wire? Or that would be too less?

The alternative I was referring to was using a different kind of wire, like “single core electric wire”, in copper of course. The purpose would be the same, measuring battery drain.

8AWG is 2mΩ/m, kind of overkill , a good bronze spring is arround 3~4 mΩ for reference.

14AWG : 8mΩ/m, a 25cm piece would be the 2mΩ which is low enough IMO.

[JasonWW]

@Robin Dobbie

The test here by djozz seems to indicate a 70CRI version of your emitter would output 2200lm at 7A so maybe all three would be cranking 6600, after driver and optic inefficiency maybe 4500lm? Not really an expert, just a guess.

Excellent guess. Exactly what I used to do. Figure about 70% efficiency between led tests and an actual flashlight.

Try to find a test from a known person here on the forum and the same emitter and color temp. Its not gonna be real accurate, but it gets you in the ball park.

Always use clamp meter for these amp draw tests.

If a FET driver, keep in mind the battery model plays a role in the amperage.

[MascaratumB]

Thanks Robin Dobbie and JasonWW for your replies.
That seems a good way to calculate that!
These are all estimations of course, but I was wondering how much lumens it would produce.

That is a Convoy S6 I did with a FET driver from Lexel w/ Bistro HD OTSM, 3 Luxeon V installed in an led4power alluramic MCPCB, spring bypassed, copper spacer from kiriba-ru, forward clicky switch and Carclo 10511.

That thing gets HOT real quick anf puts out a small wall of light, so I was wondering how much it would be putting with that Amp draw (which will be different when using the switch and not the thick copper cable I used).

Thanks again for the replies!

---

At thefreeman, I went to a local store and got a relatively thick cable (4mm outter diameter), made of copper inner strands thicker than AWG inner strands.
It will work

[JasonWW]

@MascaratumB

Thanks Robin Dobbie and JasonWW for your replies.
That seems a good way to calculate that!
These are all estimations of course, but I was wondering how much lumens it would produce.

That is a Convoy S6 I did with a FET driver from Lexel w/ Bistro HD OTSM, 3 Luxeon V installed in an led4power alluramic MCPCB, spring bypassed, copper spacer from kiriba-ru, forward clicky switch and Carclo 10511.

That thing gets HOT real quick anf puts out a small wall of light, so I was wondering how much it would be putting with that Amp draw (which will be different when using the switch and not the thick copper cable I used).

Thanks again for the replies!

We don’t know what led you’re using. Different bins and color temperatures have different outputs.

So like Robin said earlier:

Maybe 4500lm if it’s CW
Maybe 3900lm if it’s WW

You might lose some amperage when you put the tailcap on and that will lower output slightly.

TIR efficiency varies, but I’d say its close to reflectors in general.

[Scallywag]

@MascaratumB

Thanks Robin Dobbie and JasonWW for your replies.
That seems a good way to calculate that!
These are all estimations of course, but I was wondering how much lumens it would produce.

That is a Convoy S6 I did with a FET driver from Lexel w/ Bistro HD OTSM, 3 Luxeon V installed in an led4power alluramic MCPCB, spring bypassed, copper spacer from kiriba-ru, forward clicky switch and Carclo 10511.

That thing gets HOT real quick anf puts out a small wall of light, so I was wondering how much it would be putting with that Amp draw (which will be different when using the switch and not the thick copper cable I used).

Thanks again for the replies!

---

At thefreeman, I went to a local store and got a relatively thick cable (4mm outter diameter), made of copper inner strands thicker than AWG inner strands.
It will work

I think it was djozz? Had 4x Luxeon V in a D4 (I do, too) and measured over 5000 lumens at turn-on.
I can’t measure the current or lumens on my D4 though.

[CNCman]

My question is, ‘Can a lighted switch be hooked up to this driver ? It will need power, I do not know where or the voltage to hook the leds too.’
.
This is for the 2020 BLF O-L contest build, so any help is awesome
You can answer here if you wish … #47… CNCman's entry to the 8th annual BLF/O-L contest [ Handmade - FINISHED - ]

I do have a question about a “MTN 12mm Momentary Switch (for momentary / e.switch drivers)”
http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=25_83…
.
The driver i’m using to hook it to is,
http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=67&pr…
.
I have and understand the instructions where the 2 wires go for controlling the driver.
I have the non-led switches in hand and just ordered some with led.
.
.
Here are the options for the driver below.

FET Driver – 20mm model FET20-SS – Zener Mod?: Yes – ~6V LVP – Firmware: Electronic Switch CU… – Turbo Timer: 120 Seconds

Electronic Switch CUSTOM Firmware Options.

1. Number of light levels: 4

2. Approximate PWM levels of each mode: (1) 10% – (2) 30% – (3) 60% – (4) – 100%

Zener Mod: Yes – ~6V LVP