OSRAM CSLNM1.TG & CULNM1.TG 1mm², CSLPM1.TG & CULPM1.TG 2mm²

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id30209
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Yeap, Vinh has limited audience where Hank is widely known so yes, i agree with Tom. 
Adding bypassed wire at the spring on somebody else’s design doesn’t make you refference in this business.

WTB Titanium 4sevens 2xAA tube

JaredM
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TomE, I don’t know why it seems I’m rubbing you the wrong way and if I did, I apologize. I’m not challenging you, Hank, Vinh, nor anyone. I’m trying to clarify where there are differences, both in my understanding, and among greater BLF. I’m sorry if my familiarity and opinion that another naming convention is/was more popular seems confrontational.

Personally, I have no problem remembering or typing out full Osram model numbers. Shorthand is merely a convenience. If it starts to cause more confusion that the longform, then it’s not worth it IMO.

id30209, while I have personal feelings that seem to reflect yours about the parties we are discussing, I think it’s fair to acknowledge that in the early days of 4040 white flats, Vinh was one of the exclusive sources of these emitters and lights equipped with them. Not until the K1/KR1 was there any whisper of these emitters in Hanks main thread. In fact, searching that thread for either w1.1 or w2.1 only returns one post by SKV89 from May 2020. I can trace back the W1.1 on CPF/Vinh as far as August 2019.

Searching all of BLF for “w2.2” only yields a handful of hits besides here. All are from Sept/Oct 2020 except one by “Agro”:https://budgetlightforum.com/node/71301 which may have been a typo as he changed it to w2.1 at some point (original frozen in time by the quote in the following post) Ironically here, I was one of the few to ever write w.2.2 back in “Sept 2020”:https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1693603#comment-1693603 , and I’d like to say it was a error as well that got away from me, but I used that” two times”:https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1693736#comment-1693736 in that thread, albeit only 11hrs apart.

Again, I’m really, honestly not trying to ruffle feathers. I’ve added to the confusion myself as I just pointed out in the previous paragraph. id30209 also has acknowledged the W2.1= Boost HX in the Convoy thread not too long ago. Now that I’ve spent a bit of time playing etymologist, it’s fair for me to say there isn’t a widely accepted standard on BLF and we all can get confused by these alpha numerics at times.

Going forward, I’m probably going to stick to the full names of these emitters.

Cheers everyone!

id30209
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@JaredM

Neven from L4P had W2.1 and 1.1 way before Vinh...

Later on they showed up in Vietnamese groups and so on. Only this year they became more available.

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Tom E
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No no, nothin meant. All's good smile Just being obsessed bout trying to figure this naming mess out, not to mention features. I checked my inventory and I got like 5 W1's, which I regret not using. Sure looks like the Boost HL makes the W1 obsolete - more lumens and seems like more throw, though not sure that's been proven.

I think we (or me) should ask Hank where he got it - may have been done wrong. Could be since Chinese is written right to left, the rev "2" is to the left of the part #, being 1 or 2. 

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Cross post*

I am unaware of what happened before they started showing up in mod threads, so thanks for the info. I want to be clear that in my individual experience, aforementioned cpf threads were the first place I knew of those nicknames becoming popular.

But is there agreement that there are now two similar, but different, naming conventions for this series of emitters? Right or wrong isn’t the question, it’s just that W2.1 now can mean either Boost HL(hank) or HX (neven/vinh).

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Yep, totally agree bout the 2 differing naming conventions.

That name OSRAM used - "OSTAR Projection Compact" was ridiculous.

The 4040's at least have clear, well defined short names now - Boost HL and Boost HX, so maybe we should just stick with those.

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The HL definitely seems to have an advantage by a solid 5-10% over the 3030 1mm². But that really only shows up at the very top end of the current range. I’d use the 3030s in triple or quad setups personally. I really want to get a D4Sv2 and try these under an Angie. In that application, I’d bet there’s a negligible difference.

I’m really surprised no one has published output comparisons of the HX vs 3030 2mm2. I know djozz had some unpublished testing that didn’t show any improvement. I’ve only read handful of mods with HXs, of which most seem to not show a major advantage. Some of those were from questionable sources like the Yinding AE store.. I Really want to see how samples from Hank and Simon stack up.

I recently gained access to a multichannel Agilent DAQ and a 20A-8V / 10A-20V power supply. If I can build find time to scrap together a solid test fixture, I’d gladly setup some testing of my own. I also have access to a FLIR camera and a uv through nir spectrometer, if I want to get fancy. Time and money is tight this year so who’s knows if I’ll get around to it.

With the multivhannel DAQ, I could easily capture Vf, Tj, heatsink temp and current with fast sweeps. This could allow me to capture data that minimizes thermal bottlenecks from things like sub-optimal reflow and a relatively small heatsink. For example, I could write a script to ramp up 1A/s until lumens max out (starting at rt), followed by a pid that finds a current that saturates the sink/mcpcb at say 50C, sweeps again, 80C, etc.

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Yeah there have been people talking about building and buying lights with the new gen Osram emitters that probably aren’t even aware of Emisar-Noctigon. Hank just chose a naming scheme that is way, way easier to understand and memorize than Osram’s product IDs.

My $0.02… GF2 for the green light version, YF2, for yellow, etc. would make sense for the sake of not having to memorize or look up the specific codes too! …and yes, I know “white flat” comes from the pad color rather than the light emitted but this would make sense since the original “WF” is the white light version anyway.

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Vinh’s naming convention makes more sense than Hank’s, but who are we to say. W1.1 for the CULNM1.tg and W2.1 for the CULPM1.tg

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SKV89 wrote:
Vinh’s naming convention makes more sense than Hank’s, but who are we to say. W1.1 for the CULNM1.tg and W2.1 for the CULPM1.tg

Huh? Their naming conventions are the same…

The “.1” simply denotes 4×4mm pad versions. For hotrod flashlight use that larger thermal pad should be an advantage (although that depends heavily on what bins people have access to based on some of the tests of the CU- emitters here recently).

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BurningPlayd0h wrote:
SKV89 wrote:
Vinh's naming convention makes more sense than Hank's, but who are we to say. W1.1 for the CULNM1.tg and W2.1 for the CULPM1.tg
Huh? Their naming conventions are the same... The ".1" simply denotes 4x4mm pad versions. For hotrod flashlight use that larger thermal pad should be an advantage (although that depends heavily on what bins people have access to based on some of the tests of the CU- emitters here recently).

This is how it looks:

4040 Part #     Name       size     vinh     Hank

CULNM1.tg   Boost HL   1 mm²   W1.1    W2.1

CULPM1.tg   Boost HX   2 mm²   W2.1    W2.2

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Oh my, it was a mess before and now it’s even worse Facepalm
It would be best of one side switched their naming but I doubt it will happen because this would confuse their existing customers.

Vinh’s lights are far less popular but not rare enough to be disregarded. And he used the naming for a longer time, so there are quite a few mentions around.

I strongly suggest using neither Vinh nor Hank naming. Or at very least making it clear which is being used, i.e. Hank-W2.1. Even in the case of Hank-W2.2 – that’s because even if the name has a singular meaning now, Vinh may want to use it eventually.

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The more I consider it, I think the nick names should be dropped altogether. Boost HL and Boost HX are clear enough and brief. Funny, we are on the 3rd generation of these LED's already.

I'm more concerned about the lack of knowledge of them here. Hank rates the K1 with the HL as more throw than the HX (650 kcd vs. 600 kcd), but that's just one data point, and we don't know what the amps and lumens are. I think these #'s are higher than the W1 and W2, but I'm not sure now, since Hank took those options down.

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I think they used to be 550 and 500kcd for the cslnm1 and cslpm1, respectively? Or maybe I’m making things up? I’m not certain

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Tom E wrote:

BurningPlayd0h wrote:
SKV89 wrote:
Vinh’s naming convention makes more sense than Hank’s, but who are we to say. W1.1 for the CULNM1.tg and W2.1 for the CULPM1.tg
Huh? Their naming conventions are the same… The “.1” simply denotes 4×4mm pad versions. For hotrod flashlight use that larger thermal pad should be an advantage (although that depends heavily on what bins people have access to based on some of the tests of the CU- emitters here recently).

This is how it looks:


4040 Part #     Name       size     vinh     Hank


CULNM1.tg   Boost HL   1 mm²   W1.1    W2.1


CULPM1.tg   Boost HX   2 mm²   W2.1    W2.2

Wow I completely missed that, assumed the “W2.1” he listed was the CULPM1.TG until now and that there was a “W1.1” listed as well still. Yeah Hank’s nomenclature makes little sense IMHO.

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Tom E wrote:

BurningPlayd0h wrote:
SKV89 wrote:
Vinh’s naming convention makes more sense than Hank’s, but who are we to say. W1.1 for the CULNM1.tg and W2.1 for the CULPM1.tg
Huh? Their naming conventions are the same… The “.1” simply denotes 4×4mm pad versions. For hotrod flashlight use that larger thermal pad should be an advantage (although that depends heavily on what bins people have access to based on some of the tests of the CU- emitters here recently).

This is how it looks:


4040 Part #     Name       size     vinh     Hank


CULNM1.tg   Boost HL   1 mm²   W1.1    W2.1


CULPM1.tg   Boost HX   2 mm²   W2.1    W2.2

I would personally just prefer to use the part numbers. CULPM1 (and the .TG part if we’re discussing the color variants)… I wander over to reddit and nobody is keeping any of the conventions for the “2.1” style names straight… If the part numbers are hard to remember, just specify 3030 or 4040 and 1mm or 2mm.
The good news at least is that probably nobody is actually talking about the CULNM1.TG because it’s basically impossible to get a hold of. So that assumption makes things slightly easier to figure out…

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L6 XHP70.2 P2 4000K FET+7135 | Jaxman M8 | MF02 | Jaxman Z1 CULNM1.TG | Blue S2+ w/ ML Special | Thrunite T10Tv2
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That post is old (days? smile). I've dropped the nick names in favor of their real names: Boost HL and Boost HX. Simple, to the point, can be shortened to HL or HX, and the manufacturer named them that way, so what could be better?


 

OSRAM LED’s for max throw

Color      Part #                     footprint (LED surface)     Max/Pulsed   Peak Output (A)      

White  – KW CSLNM1.TG – 3030 (1mm²) W1               3/3.3 A           4.5-5.0 A                    (W1/NM1)
White  – KW CSLPM1.TG – 3030 (2mm²) W2               5/6 A               7.0-8.0 A                    (W2/PM1)

White  – KW CULNM1.TG – 4040 (1mm²)                       3.3/4 A           ~6 A                            (Boost HL)
White  – KW CULPM1.TG – 4040 (2mm²)                       6.6/8 A           9 A                              (Boost HX)

Red    – KR CSLNM1.23 –    3030 (1mm²) W1

Blue    – KB CSLNM1.14 –    3030 (1mm²) W1

Green – KP CSLNM1.F1 –    3030 (1mm²) W1              3/4 A               6.5 – 7.0 A    
Green – KP CSLPM1.F1 –    3030 (2mm²) W1

Yellow – KY CSLNM1.FY -    3030 (1mm²) W1

 

More OSRAM Website links

3030 variants

4040 (boost) variants


 

 

Just fyi, if you follow the links to the individual LED's above, you may notice the W1, W2, and Boost HX are in full production phase, while the Boost HL is in End-Of-Life and not recommended for new designs. This may explain the availability issues.

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Tom E wrote:

That post is old (days? smile). I've dropped the nick names in favor of their real names: Boost HL and Boost HX. Simple, to the point, can be shortened to HL or HX, and the manufacturer named them that way, so what could be better?


 

OSRAM LED’s for max throw

Color      Part #                     footprint (LED surface)     Max/Pulsed   Peak Output (A)      

White  – KW CSLNM1.TG – 3030 (1mm²) W1               3/3.3 A           4.5-5.0 A                    (W1/NM1)
White  – KW CSLPM1.TG – 3030 (2mm²) W2               5/6 A               7.0-8.0 A                    (W2/PM1)

White  – KW CULNM1.TG – 4040 (1mm²)                       3.3/4 A           ~6 A                            (Boost HL)
White  – KW CULPM1.TG – 4040 (2mm²)                       6.6/8 A           9 A                              (Boost HX)

Red    – KR CSLNM1.23 –    3030 (1mm²) W1

Blue    – KB CSLNM1.14 –    3030 (1mm²) W1

Green – KP CSLNM1.F1 –    3030 (1mm²) W1              3/4 A               6.5 – 7.0 A    
Green – KP CSLPM1.F1 –    3030 (2mm²) W1

Yellow – KY CSLNM1.FY -    3030 (1mm²) W1

 

More OSRAM Website links

3030 variants

4040 (boost) variants


 

 

Just fyi, if you follow the links to the individual LED's above, you may notice the W1, W2, and Boost HX are in full production phase, while the Boost HL is in End-Of-Life and not recommended for new designs. This may explain the availability issues.

Yeah, I remember when Led4Power had the CULNM1.TG/Boost HL he could only get a small number and they were already discontinued. 

Sorry, I wasn't really addressing your table in particular, but rather the use of the "W2.1" style nicknames in general - I keep seeing them used inconsistently so I never know what is actually meant by them...

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which one throws better?

I’m considering asking Simon from Convoy to use one for the S2 flashlight

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The CULNM sold by L4P was also a low flux bin. Surprisingly Fireflies was able to source the 6Q, which is the 2nd highest flux bin for their new lights. I wonder if the emitter is not really discontinued. They are probably still making them as long as the purchase quantity is high enough.

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supreme wrote:
which one throws better?

I’m considering asking Simon from Convoy to use one for the S2 flashlight

You’ll want to use the CSLNM1 for the S2, to get similar throw on the CULPM1 it needs to be driven at 7.4 – 8A and that’s getting way to hot in such a small host

To use the CULPM1 in the S2 requires Simon’s fet driver and he won’t give any warranty for it. I’m running it in my C8+ with a Samsung 30Q which peaks at 7.4A, no higher. I get 1300 lumens and 1002m range. I only have a cheap meter so I like to subtract 50m off that measurement

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

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supreme
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Funtastic wrote:
supreme wrote:
which one throws better?

I’m considering asking Simon from Convoy to use one for the S2 flashlight

You’ll want to use the CSLNM1 for the S2, to get similar throw on the CULPM1 it needs to be driven at 7.4 – 8A and that’s getting way to hot in such a small host

To use the CULPM1 in the S2 requires Simon’s fet driver and he won’t give any warranty for it. I’m running it in my C8+ with a Samsung 30Q which peaks at 7.4A, no higher. I get 1300 lumens and 1002m range. I only have a cheap meter so I like to subtract 50m off that measurement

I heard rumors a 18350 tube might become available for the C8+, which emitter would you recommend then when it releases?

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supreme wrote:
Funtastic wrote:
supreme wrote:
which one throws better?

I’m considering asking Simon from Convoy to use one for the S2 flashlight

You’ll want to use the CSLNM1 for the S2, to get similar throw on the CULPM1 it needs to be driven at 7.4 – 8A and that’s getting way to hot in such a small host

To use the CULPM1 in the S2 requires Simon’s fet driver and he won’t give any warranty for it. I’m running it in my C8+ with a Samsung 30Q which peaks at 7.4A, no higher. I get 1300 lumens and 1002m range. I only have a cheap meter so I like to subtract 50m off that measurement

I heard rumors a 18350 tube might become available for the C8+, which emitter would you recommend then when it releases?

Then you wouldn’t exactly want to run at 7+ amps with an 18350, you’ll be out of battery within minutes.

Both videos I made using both emitters

NM1 – 937m – 700 lumens

PM1 – 952m – 1300 lumens

The only difference is the PM1 has a wider beam

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

supreme
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Funtastic wrote:
supreme wrote:
Funtastic wrote:
supreme wrote:
which one throws better?

I’m considering asking Simon from Convoy to use one for the S2 flashlight

You’ll want to use the CSLNM1 for the S2, to get similar throw on the CULPM1 it needs to be driven at 7.4 – 8A and that’s getting way to hot in such a small host

To use the CULPM1 in the S2 requires Simon’s fet driver and he won’t give any warranty for it. I’m running it in my C8+ with a Samsung 30Q which peaks at 7.4A, no higher. I get 1300 lumens and 1002m range. I only have a cheap meter so I like to subtract 50m off that measurement

I heard rumors a 18350 tube might become available for the C8+, which emitter would you recommend then when it releases?

Then you wouldn’t exactly want to run at 7+ amps with an 18350, you’ll be out of battery within minutes.

Both videos I made using both emitters

NM1 – 937m – 700 lumens

PM1 – 952m – 1300 lumens

The only difference is the PM1 has a wider beam

If you don’t want to run at 7+ amps with an 18350, wouldn’t the CULPM1 not be recommended for a C8+ 18350 tube? since it needs to be driven at 7.4 – 8A?

Funtastic
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The way you have typed that sentence is confusing

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

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supreme
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Funtastic wrote:
The way you have typed that sentence is confusing

Does CULPM1 need to be driven at 7.4 – 8A?

If so, would it not be recommended for C8+ with a 18350 tube?

Funtastic
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supreme wrote:
Funtastic wrote:
The way you have typed that sentence is confusing

Does CULPM1 need to be driven at 7.4 – 8A?

If so, would it not be recommended for C8+ with a 18350 tube?

You can run at less but that’ll reduce the range and lumens. 5A = approx 1080 lumens. If you want max range then the NM1 at 5A is best

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

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I installed a Boost HX (CULPM1) into an old SD Mini yesterday, running Anduril2 on a FET+1 driver. I extended the LED wires a little, using 22 AWG, and both springs are bypassed. The SD Mini is about the same size and design as the MH20GT. I tested it with a few different batteries, trying to find the sweet spot in amps.

So far it seems like 8.75 to 9.25 amps results in the most output. The highest I tested was with a fully charged VTC5D and measured 10 amps with output about the same as 8.4 amps. I haven't seen any signs of the LED turning blue, or any other damage.

Best calibrated lumens at start was: 1440 lumens (1630 Tom E lumens)

Best throw measured, maybe 10-20 secs was: 80 kcd (566 meters)

I chose the SD Mini because:

  • had an "original" Luxeon V in it that had an annoying blue ring around the hot spot
  • it's in great shape, even though I EDC'ed it for quite a few months, maybe year or 2
  • it's a really nice quality compact thrower - good factory focus, excellent quality reflector, good AR glass
  • it was already modded with a FET+1 driver (not sure if a regulated 9 amp driver exists in this size)
  • has the lit switch so perfect for Anduril 2

I must say without any focusing done, the hot spot looks well defined. I used the original 5050 centering piece I had in there, so the 4040 Boost HX twists into position but seems to be pretty well centered, based on how the hotspot looks. I couldn't use Simon's 4040 centering pieces I bought because they are for 7 and 9 mm holes, and the SD Mini was about 7.8 mm.

I see djozz came to about the same conclusion, at https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1651439#comment-1651439:

djozz wrote:
I tested a Boost HX sample for Hank, but did not post it on BLF because Hank thinks that he can source a better bin. At least for my sample, at 5A (3.13V) you are at already 80% of its maximum output so that is a fine performance already, IMO even ideal. (I found the maximum at 9A).

 I bought these from Simon, BIN1:8RF-fcbB46-B5-6000, pre-mounted. This one was on a 20 mm MCPCB that had to be trimmed slightly to fit.

Funtastic
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I found on some builds 6A hits just above 1300 at 30s, and others that need 7.5-8A. There’s a lot of variance with these.

Why doesn’t Simon’s 8A driver run at 8A? I understand resistance but on some L21A units it’s around 6.4A and others 7.2A, never higher with a topped off 40T, both running at 1300 lumens. Must be to doing with the led?

Came across a faulty driver that maxed at 3.97A, what would have failed?

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

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