[Reference] Nichia E17A/E21A (2000K - 6500K, R9050/R9080, color) CCT and tint shots

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Jan910
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hello, when will triple e21a for fw3a be available?

Wizard pro xp-l
Kd8.2 xhp50.2 2700k
Fw3a xpl hi 5000k
S2+ sst20 4000k
S2+ x-pl 6500k
S2+ sst10 UV 365nm
S2+ xp-e2 620nm

clemence
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Jan910 wrote:

hello, when will triple e21a for fw3a be available?

Wink
Whezzel
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clemence wrote:
Jan910 wrote:

hello, when will triple e21a for fw3a be available?

Wink

I am also interested in this. With the new Lume1 driver on the way, I would really like to put some E21a emitters in my fw3b to make it match my brass d4v2.

contactcr
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Anyone in the US have a single E21A or E17A they would be willing to put in an envelope and send (will pay obv).

I want to to try it in this Olight:

jon_slider
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yes
pm me your address Smile

Alex G
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maukka wrote:

I’m going to test at least
2000K+6500K

Can you please tell me if this mixture of diodes will be pinker than nichia 219B sw45k?
Thank.

jon_slider
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Alex G wrote:
Can you please tell me if this mixture of diodes will be pinker than nichia 219B sw45k?

yes
the blended tint is farther below the bbl than sw45k

the duv of the mix is -0.0127

the duv of the sw45k is -0.0055

stephenk
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I’m looking at replacing my XM-L2 Convoy S2+ (which I use for night photography illumination) with something similar, but with warm, and neutral-cool high-CRI emitters. Would love to see a quad E21A Convoy S2+ (or in a similar host, with good range of brightness steps). The Noctigon KR4 now has E21A options, but as I want 4 lights (2 warm, 2 neutral-cool) that would be prohibitively expensive (and I don’t need silly aux LEDs).

drgentr
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Has anyone succeeded at replicating the tint of 219b sw45k using a combination of E21A (or even Optisolis?) The 4500K E21A on its own looks far less rosy.

thefreeman
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Using osram color calculator and integrated measurements at 700mA

3×6500+1×2000 = 5092K -0.0080 , CCT too high

2×6500+1×5700+1×2000 = 4891K -0.0080

1×6500+2×5700+1×2000 = 4697K -0.0079

1×6500+1×5700+ 1×5000+2000= 4548K-0.0075

4500K = 4467 -0.0038, so with the last mix you can get a lower duv at ~4500K, but not quite like sw45k, which at 2.8A must be under -0.01

Pavlo
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Clemence had a nice chart showing how the tint results with each mix.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/140459745@N04/46543309595/in/dateposted-friend/

I find the 4500K E21A already nice and rosy.
If you mix 2× 2000K & 2×6500 you will get VERY rosy. In this extreme case, the tint mixxing is very important, so you need to use the right optic.

jon_slider
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drgentr wrote:
The 4500K E21A on its own looks far less rosy.

VERY true,
duv of sw45k is lower than the duv of E21a and Optisolis

if you want sw45k tint, why not use sw45k? Smile

I tried E21a, and also Optisolis, to give myself a chance to see them for myself.

then I went back to sw45k, and I am happier with the more pink tint (lower duv)

it is also easier to buy and reflow mcpcb for sw45k, than for E21a and Optisolis.

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Mixing E21A is advantageous for lower CCTs because there are no available LEDs with rosy tint at low CCTs and we can achieve <-0.01 duv by mixing 2000K+ 4500K or above.

jon_slider
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thefreeman wrote:
Mixing E21A is advantageous for lower CCTs because there are no available LEDs with rosy tint at low CCTs

good point, maybe.. depends on what CCT is the desired objective

your post with mixing calculations were not lower CCT than sw45k, so I dont see a good reason to do that,

sw45k already works without the extra hassle of mixing different CCT, plus mixing LEDs adds an additonal requirement to use optics to blend the separate LED beams

thefreeman
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Yeah, drgentr asked for 4500K so I tried to get close to it, I agree it’s not worth it.

For lower CCTs, here are the tints I get in a tint ramping flashlight for example :

Using 6500K-2000K would have lowered the duv even more, as shown in maukka’s test, and for a larger portion of the CCT range. (also in this flashlight the leds run at half current at the middle of the tint ramp, so the duv is not as low as it could be )

jon_slider
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thanks for taking the time to share info

I really appreciate the picture you posted, makes it easy to see what is happening, when using a 2000k LED as the bottom CCT of the mix

even in stock form, the IF25 with built in tint mixing that uses a 2700k as the bottom CCT, looks very interesting. But I dont know the duv values

thefreeman
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jon_slider wrote:
thanks for taking the time to share info

I really appreciate the picture you posted, makes it easy to see what is happening, when using a 2000k LED as the bottom CCT of the mix

even in stock form, the IF25 with built in tint mixing that uses a 2700k as the bottom CCT, looks very interesting. But I dont know the duv values

You’re welcome.

Yeah 2000K really bring down the mix into the rosy region compared to 2700K thanks to that BBL curvature into the red.

I made some measurements of the stock IF25 here , of course the sst-20 6500K are pretty bad. A few posts below I put sliced LH351D in it. But the CCT range is limited compared to E21A which allows to mix very spaced CCTs

battery
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I didn’t get a reply in the Hank thread so I’m going to try asking here in case anyone knows. How much does the CCT on the E21A get pushed up when it’s run at 1.2A versus the 0.7A in your tests? Like say 5000K would be more like 5500K and 4500K becomes more like 5000K?

maukka wrote:
Aren’t they just glorious (sorry, chart doesn’t reach warm enough to show 2000K, 2200K, 2000+3000K).

thefreeman
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There is a spreadsheet with all the measurements : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CERSuF2JvYtjsoyPh-wEZ0dG6fSI-FDC...

battery
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thefreeman wrote:
There is a spreadsheet with all the measurements : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CERSuF2JvYtjsoyPh-wEZ0dG6fSI-FDC...

Thanks I didn’t know about that. CCT in those tests are fairly steady but how is it measured?

In Maukka’s review of the KR4 here: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/72632 the 5000K model shifted quite a bit from lowest power to highest power setting.

I don’t know what to make of it.

thefreeman
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The MCPCB in the KR4 is not nearly as good as the Virence ones, thus the LEDs heat more and there is more tint shift.

Quadrupel
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thefreeman
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Quadrupel wrote:
https://www.andwinmcpcb.com/sinkpad-pcb/ Wink

These are DTP MCPCBs, E21A/E17A don’t have a thermal pad so you can’t use those (unless you have a grounded cathode driver and DTP the cathode but that’s a special case and even then only one side will have good thermals). They have a poor thermal conductivity dielectric layer and will perform badly. Virence’s MCPCBs have a very thin (relatively) high conductivity dielectric layer.

Edit : new ones even have 3oz copper pours ! https://www.eurekatronix.com/product-page/er10s1-21

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I’m pretty sure they can make same or better MCPCB.
3v

thefreeman
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Yes they can do similar non DTP MCPCBs, up to 8W/m.K dielectric (they don’t detail the thickness) and apparently up to 3oz copper pours. Must be very expensive though.

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