Best deal for 3500mAh unprotected 18650 cells

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raccoon city
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Best deal for 3500mAh unprotected 18650 cells

I'm thinking about getting about 8 more high capacity unprotected 18650 cells.

I'm looking for Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA, Samsung 35E, LG MJ1, or something similar with a capacity of about 3500mAh.

I prefer to avoid cells made in China.

I'm open to reputable AliExpress/Amazon/eBay sellers.

The best price I can find are Samsung 35E cells for $4.41 each at liionwholesale.com

http://batteries.parametrek.com/index.html?size=18650&mah=3400,_

Is this the best deal available?

(The Vapcell F35 cells are unfortunately made in China)

Edited by: raccoon city on 01/14/2021 - 22:32
Zappaman
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If you’ll wait a while, 18650 batteries may have a sale (they had the red SanyoNCR18650GA’s last fall for maybe $4.49?) I just remember it was decent (as was shipping). I actually scored the slightly smaller Sanyo NCR18650BL 3350mAh 7A Battery from them for $2.99- perfect for med-drain headlamps, my LT1’s, and smaller lights

Last year I bought some PannyB’s out of China (may have been my LAST AliExpress order) where they showed a video of the capacity on a 14 hour NOR test in the product feature. I figured if they didn’t meet spec I’d get my money back making a video, wasting some time Flat Stare Price was about $1.75 each and turns out they work! Tested to spec and decent IR (no heat) during charging. They run nightly in my pair of LT1’s in our bedroom- one on each nightstand. I haven’t charged them since installing those batteries and last I checked Anduril flashed out 4.1V.

So rolling the dice again over last thanksgiving (well fed I was… but bored on the in-laws couch most of four days)… I tried another Chinese outfit. I took a chance on some Chinese 35E’s that came in JUST under $2 each. I am waiting on them still and went back to check a week later and the deal was OVER (and shipping doubled TOO). Now I get to wait (7 weeks and counting) to see if it’s the “deal” I am hoping it will be. Crossing fingers!

ZappaMan

Sirstinky
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GAs are the best, but 35E are the next best option. I think they are underrated at 8A max. You could go MJ1, but they are in between the 35E and GA. You might try 18650batterystore. They are all pretty competitively priced.

raccoon city
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Thanks for the advice everyone!

Although $4.41 per cell (plus shipping) is pretty cheap, I think I'll wait a while and see if a better bargain pops up somewhere on BLF.  :BEER:

zoulas
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Don’t be surprised if the GA’s are made in China. Panasonic recently opened a factory there.

MascaratumB
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Have you checked these? (see the price for 8)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000532198081.html

It’s on the Vapcell store. Not sure if it compensates or not, but maybe you can check with Vapcell Dennis and see if there are any discounts on it Wink

docware
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Samsung 35E from liionwholesale.com is good choice. Decent cycle life, internal resistance is also good. Avoid Aliexpress.

pennzy
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Better figure in the shipping. 18650batterystore is usually cheaper than LIwholesale when all is said and done. For my money, it is not worth buying from overseas to save a few dollars.

kennybobby
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What do you mean by “unprotected 18650 cells”?

Pretty much all quality cells have internal protection devices except maybe those used by Tesla.

Now i used to think that i was cool,
drivin' around on fossil fuel,
until i saw what i was doin',
was drivin' down the road to ruin. --JT

ChrisGarrett
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kennybobby wrote:
What do you mean by “unprotected 18650 cells”?

Pretty much all quality cells have internal protection devices except maybe those used by Tesla.

Those with an external PCB added to offset over discharge, under discharge and over current.

It’s a common thing.

Chris

gotlib
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Sirstinky wrote:
GAs are the best, but 35E are the next best option. I think they are underrated at 8A max. You could go MJ1, but they are in between the 35E and GA. You might try 18650batterystore. They are all pretty competitively priced.

Hello
Cells “ GA’s “ ? Is it this one? :
Cellule Lithium 18650 3.6V SANYO GA 3500mAh

-If yes,i don’t understand why it would be the best, explain to me please Sad
they only do : Discharge current: 10A
while the samsung 30Q : 15A
and better : the sony VTC6 : 30A

so for my flashlight ,the sony VTC6 would be the best?
thank you in advance for your reply

edit : this is for use in my flashligt sofirn q8

MascaratumB
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gotlib wrote:
Hello Cells “ GA’s “ ? Is it this one? : Cellule Lithium 18650 3.6V SANYO GA 3500mAh

Yes, correct, those are the ones!

gotlib wrote:
they only do : Discharge current: 10A while the samsung 30Q : 15A and better : the sony VTC6 : 30A

Also correct, although the 30Q can go higher maybe the VTC6 don’t go to that limit…

gotlib wrote:
-If yes,i don’t understand why it would be the best, explain to me please Sad
gotlib wrote:
so for my flashlight ,the sony VTC6 would be the best? thank you in advance for your reply

These two questions cannot be seen separated in you case. So: which is your flashlight?

Only knowing that we will be able to reply “which is the best for your flashlight”.

Discharge capacity in not the only thing that needs to be taken into account when chosing a battery.
Example:
a) if you want a battery with larger capacity, you’ll go for a Sanyo GA or a Samsung 35E. You can use this in the cases when your flashlight doesn’t need a high discharge cell (ex: a light with a driver that only goes to a certain limit in draning).
b) if you want a battery for high discharge, you’ll go for the Samsung 30Q or the VTC6. You will use these when you have the so-called “hot rods”, like Emisar D4 or something with FET drivers that will draw a high amount of Amps to achieve/deliver top power.

MascaratumB
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gotlib wrote:

edit : this is for use in my flashligt sofirn q8

Use Samsung 30Q or Sony VTC6.

See this thread: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/61956

gotlib
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MascaratumB wrote:
gotlib wrote:

edit : this is for use in my flashligt sofirn q8

Use Samsung 30Q or Sony VTC6.

See this thread: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/61956

Hello,i read your link, thank you

i also found this interesting table :
1611785555-vtc6-30-q-lghg2-capacity-tests.jpg - envoi d'image avec NoelShack

link : https://budgetlightforum.com/node/61641

but i have the samsung 30Q since 2 years and they are already dead! they no longer charge at all Sad
whereas i had read by google that the cells li-ion ones can on average be charged 300-500 times
i have recharged my samsung 30Q less than 100 times i can swear
but i may have discharged them too much : in general, once put in my charger they displayed about 2.70 mah ,what could be, with time, deteriorate them ?

Therefore i am very disappointed with the samsung 30q Sad but the sony vtc6, according to my table,would be even worse ,their lifespan is even less good?

d_t_a
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gotlib wrote:
MascaratumB wrote:
gotlib wrote:

edit : this is for use in my flashligt sofirn q8

Use Samsung 30Q or Sony VTC6.

See this thread: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/61956

Hello,i read your link, thank you

i also found this interesting table :
1611785555-vtc6-30-q-lghg2-capacity-tests.jpg - envoi d'image avec NoelShack

link : https://budgetlightforum.com/node/61641

but i have the samsung 30Q since 2 years and they are already dead! they no longer charge at all Sad
whereas i had read by google that the cells li-ion ones can on average be charged 300-500 times
i have recharged my samsung 30Q less than 100 times i can swear
but i may have discharged them too much : in general, once put in my charger they displayed about 2.70 mah ,what could be, with time, deteriorate them ?

Therefore i am very disappointed with the samsung 30q Sad but the sony vtc6, according to my table,would be even worse ,their lifespan is even less good?

Battery life cycle also depends on other factors — like if it’s often left (for a somewhat long period of time, like several months) in a fully-charged state (staying at or near the full 4.20v without getting used at all), or in a very discharged state (like below maybe 2.5v or around that) — that appears to degrade the cells faster too.

docware
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Samsung 30Q has a big problem – high selfdischarge. Probability is increasing with utilization. Compare Samsung 30Q versus SONY VTC6 selfdischarge. Both cells are after the same cycle aging test.

d_t_a
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docware wrote:
Samsung 30Q has a big problem – high selfdischarge. Probability is increasing with utilization. Compare Samsung 30Q versus SONY VTC6 selfdischarge. Both cells are after the same cycle aging test.

!https://i.imgur.com/4yPnWYg.jpg!

Around how many cycles is the Samsung 30Q prior to it having a high-self-discharge?

Also, would you happen to have data for the new Samsung 30Q6-T (the newer variant/model that are manufactured in China)?

docware
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New 30Q cell at 100 % SOC shows little bit worse selfdischarge than other cells from the very beginning.

Probably is worsening gradually during using. The cells (30Q and VTC6) from comparative 72 hours test are after 700 cycles : charge 1A to 4,1 V, 0,1 A cut-off, discharge 2,5 A to 3,3 V.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=103092&p=1558437#...

Mooch´s accelerated life cycle test from gotlib´s link can be relevant for vaping maybe, but definitely not for flashlight. 4A charge and 15 A discharge are parameters to kill the cell early.
Have no data on the new 30Q6-T you mentioned.

gotlib
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Hello
thank you very much for your very precious information!
@docware thank you for your screenshot and graphic very interesting! Blushing so for my sofirn q8 you recommend me rather the sony vtc6 than the samsung 30q?

if so, would you know by chance where i can buy the cheap vtc6 shipped to France?

docware
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I definitely cannot recommend Samsung 30Q. There is too much info about 30Q high selfdischarge from various ebike forums.
In Europe is nkon https://eu.nkon.nl/ considered to be trustworthy supplier :

https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-ion/18650-size/sony-us18650-vtc6.html

You just must accept that Sony products doesn´t belong to „cheap“ category.

gotlib
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docware wrote:
I definitely cannot recommend Samsung 30Q. There is too much info about 30Q high selfdischarge from various ebike forums.
In Europe is nkon https://eu.nkon.nl/ considered to be trustworthy supplier :

https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-ion/18650-size/sony-us18650-vtc6.html

You just must accept that Sony products doesn´t belong to „cheap“ category.

thanks to you

docware
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Just made quick look at sofirn q8. You need button top version for q8 flashlight. My previous link was flat top.

https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-ion/18650-size/sony-konion-us18650vtc...

gotlib
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docware wrote:
Just made quick look at sofirn q8. You need button top version for q8 flashlight. My previous link was flat top.

https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-ion/18650-size/sony-konion-us18650vtc...

i had already found it thanks,but they are out of stock until 09 February 2021 Sad

docware
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No no, out of stock is flat top version. But you need button top version which is in stock .

https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-ion/18650-size/sony-konion-us18650vtc...

gotlib
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docware wrote:
No no, out of stock is flat top version. But you need button top version which is in stock .

https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-ion/18650-size/sony-konion-us18650vtc...

no ,add 4
then click on “ add to cart “

and you will see the message above :
“ The requested quantity for “Sony / Murata Konion US18650VTC6 3000mAh – 30A button top” is not available. “ Sad
they’ve been out of stock for several months, i don’t know what they’re doing,it annoys me and i wrote to them but no response from them

docware
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You have to be patient, your order is very small, therefore doesn´t have a priority.

gotlib
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docware wrote:
You have to be patient, your order is very small, therefore doesn´t have a priority.

no that’s not it :
if you live in USA maybe you see them : available on their site

but me from France, they wrote well :
US18650VTC6 3000mAh – 30A button top” is not available.

= out of stock
and i made a mistake :
i thought i read yesterday on their site that they would be available again on February 9 .Mut i was wrong :
it only concerns the “ flat top “ version
-For the button top they do not announce any availability date it’s worse than i thought! Tired

docware
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Hmm, that´s bad.
I live in Europe, Czech republic.
You have an alternative option, LG HG2 button top. I checked that they are really in stock.
I recommend to use DPD for shipping, have wrong experiences with other options.

https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-ion/18650-size/lg-18650-hg2-button.html

gotlib
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docware wrote:
Hmm, that´s bad.
I live in Europe, Czech republic.
You have an alternative option, LG HG2 button top. I checked that they are really in stock.
I recommend to use DPD for shipping, have wrong experiences with other options.

https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-ion/18650-size/lg-18650-hg2-button.html

thank you,but the vtc6 are better Sad i hope that nkon will answer me it’s been 3 emails that i sent them and still nothing for several days Tired

MascaratumB
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gotlib wrote:
thank you,but the vtc6 are better Sad i hope that nkon will answer me it’s been 3 emails that i sent them and still nothing for several days Tired

Do you have a soldering iron? If so, you can buy flat top VTC6 batteries and put a solder blob on the top of it, to make it a “button” top.

gotlib
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MascaratumB wrote:
gotlib wrote:
thank you,but the vtc6 are better Sad i hope that nkon will answer me it’s been 3 emails that i sent them and still nothing for several days Tired

Do you have a soldering iron? If so, you can buy flat top VTC6 batteries and put a solder blob on the top of it, to make it a “button” top.

thank you for this information
yes i have a soldering iron
but li-ion batteries scare me a little….because i know they can be explosive with metallic objects in contact…finally that if they touch pole + and pole – at the same time…but hey it scares me anyway

if there is a youtube video, that will reassure me immediately…
but also, where to find the button top for purchase?

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