How long do you sleep per night

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Dalamar
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MoreLumens wrote:
WalkIntoTheLight wrote:
MoreLumens wrote:
Diphenhydramine is a no no in this nanny state.

Seriously? It’s the most common anti-histamine there is. On the shelf of just about every store, in one brand or another. For allergies, motion-sickness, and sleep. I live in a nanny state too, but I hope it doesn’t get that bad.

Then again, there is other stuff I have to order from the US, because we can’t get it here any more. Try Ebay to see if you can get it that way.

Nope. That would be illegal, again. It was available at some point, until it was considered intoxicating or something like that if I’m right. There is a cough syrup that contains that and codeine + efedrin that can be prescribed by a doctor for a cough, I doubt that really helps, just gives a nice buzz or something. Weird country this is.


Which nanny state? Surely one of the dumber ones.

Getting high on diphenhydramine wouldn’t be pleasant. Even small amounts causes disturbing effects for me. It’s a deliriant.

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MoreLumens
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http://nannystateindex.org/

And also aint they call countries nanny state’s that likes to ban all the fun and make everything as miserable as possible for it’s people?

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Well yesterday got 1.9 mg melatonin long-acting pills and tried them out. After night before, I slept something like from 1 am to 9 am not really good so felt terrible, again. Well last night I started to feel sleepy like from 4 pm, but not so bright idea to sleep then so waited until clock was something like 10 pm and took one pill. Started to feel even more sleepier in about hour and went to bed. Sleep didn’t come that fast, but maybe in like 30 mins I fell asleep. Woke up atleast 3-4 times last night, was sweating some too and had more dreams that I usually have and even though I woke up from them, I felt back to sleep almost instantly and they just continued. That was kinda weird, I don’t usually wake up until morning so this was very unpleasant. My clock woke me up about 8.30 am after atleast 8 hours of sleep, but could I get up, not a change. Felt terrible and so much more sleepier than normally so took another 2 hours of sleep and when finally waking up around 10.30 am I still felt a bit sleepy and even more brain foggy than normally.

Didn’t really expect that melatonin would work that way.
So my next plan is to crush those pills because “long-acting” seems to last way, way too long and maybe just take half. Clock is about 1 pm and brain fog is starting to go away and returning to its normal levels. Had a bit of headache too which is also pretty normal.
Waiting for a blood test results to see why I’m always this sleepy, even though I think that problem aint physical, but mental. Still could be my thyroid gland acting up or something else. Physical problems would be way easier to fix though when mental side stuff seems to be more like a drug roulette where each medicine just makes you feel worse or there is side-effects that requires other pills or it just takes a 6-12 months even to find some “good” medicine that still can cause terrible long-term effects, addiction etc. Also just for getting an appointment for a specialized doctor seems to take anything between 1-3 months atleast. Hard to swallow pills, yes. LOL Let’s see what the next night brings, better sleep and less weirdness would be nice.

WalkIntoTheLight
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Doesn’t sound like insomnia is your problem. You’re getting plenty of sleep.

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WalkIntoTheLight wrote:
Doesn’t sound like insomnia is your problem. You’re getting plenty of sleep.

I’m getting way more sleep than usually yes and it’s not refreshing at all, but keeping an constant sleep cycle is difficult because I’m having trouble to fall a sleep at early enough. Yeah yesterday was two hours earlier than usually, but after that it usually just keeps slipping into later and later even though I would go to bed at same time. Also been trying to get less sleep by simply woking up at same time each morning, but that just seems to make me even more sleepier which requires even more sleep at the next night. Usually that was kinda normal when I had constant sleep cycle, slept more in the weekends, but now it feels like sleep debt is getting way bigger and effects feel much earlier than before. Now it feels pretty much same after two shortened nights vs. five that it was before.

I thought that maybe it’s some melatonin related issue because there is more of that coming naturally at those time when I usually fall a sleep at 2-4 am, but it doesn’t seem to be that after all.

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When you describe brain fog and say you slept 8 hours and it didn’t feel restful, it makes me think you have sleep apnea. There are two forms of sleep apnea, one is obstructive (throat issue) and the other is central (brain issue). You should ask your doctor for a sleep study.

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What you’re describing to me sounds like classical melatonin brain-fog, unrestful sleep, headache the day after.

Always start with the smallest dose that’ll put you under. DO NOT take a second (or more) dose if you wake up, or if you miss that chance to sleep, eg, by trying to stay up past when it hits. Else what happens after is exactly what you describe.

Think of a starter’s gun in a race. He shoots it to start the race, and that’s it. He doesn’t keep shooting, reloading, and shooting some more, once everyone’s running on the track, let alone after everyone crosses the finish-line.

That’s all you need, to get to sleep. It resets your body’s clock to say, “Okay, sleep now”, and that’s it. One and done. Hit it and quit it.

That’s why I said melatonin puts you under, and NicOH (or NicNH2, etc.) keeps you under. Melatonin is not a sleeping pill. It’s only that starter’s gun that indicates, “Ready… set… sleep!”.

Frankly, I think it’s misusing or at least misunderstanding melatonin that gives it a bad rep. “Doesn’t work for me”, “Gives me a headache the day after”, etc. And that “time-released melatonin” should be outright banned, ‘cause that’s not what it’s for.

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Oh yeh, I was gonna add… look into “non-24”. If your “24hr cycle”, well, isn’t, then you might naturally want or need, say, a 31hr cycle. So you can’t fall asleep early enough, force yourself to wake up “early”, then almost collapse from lack of sleep at inopportune times, etc.

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Lightbringer wrote:

“time-released melatonin” should be outright banned, ‘cause that’s not what it’s for.

Regular melatonin makes me sleep for just a short while, then I wake up.

Time-released melatonin works great for me.  :THUMBS-UP:

MoreLumens
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Joshk wrote:
When you describe brain fog and say you slept 8 hours and it didn’t feel restful, it makes me think you have sleep apnea. There are two forms of sleep apnea, one is obstructive (throat issue) and the other is central (brain issue). You should ask your doctor for a sleep study.

It could be. Too bad it’s really expensive like 300-500 €‘s. Well gotta wait those blood tests results and see if they tell anything or not. I really don’t have anything usual stuff that could cause obstructive sleep apnea, not yet too old, no weight issues, even my blood pressure was ok, but still that brain related could be and even other one, just because it ain’t always so obvious. One thing I do know that my thyroid gland has been near some limits at one test years ago and I get dry skin semi regularly, but still everything can be because of other non-physical problems. Lot of stuff going on, but getting better, I think.

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raccoon city wrote:
Time-released melatonin works great for me.

No eerie effects the day after?? Wow…

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Lightbringer wrote:

No eerie effects the day after?? Wow...

Not for me.  ;)

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MoreLumens wrote:
I really don’t have anything usual stuff that could cause obstructive sleep apnea, not yet too old, no weight issues, even my blood pressure was ok,

That’s almost exactly what I told my doctor when he recommended a sleep study. I said I have had sleeping issues my whole life, from back when I was a kid and long before my weight was not ideal. I knew my weight issues was because of the sleep issue… A poor night’s sleep just makes me less active and need to snack more.

Statistically, 1 in 4 people have sleep apnea. It’s more common that I ever realized.

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I used to have sleep apnea.

I don't anymore according to my latest sleep study (probably because I lost some weight), but I do sleep quite well with a CPAP machine.

...

I have a doctor's appointment in a couple of months.

I'm going to ask if any of my meds make me sleep excessively.

I think my psych meds might be the culprit.

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Lightbringer wrote:
Oh yeh, I was gonna add… look into “non-24”. If your “24hr cycle”, well, isn’t, then you might naturally want or need, say, a 31hr cycle. So you can’t fall asleep early enough, force yourself to wake up “early”, then almost collapse from lack of sleep at inopportune times, etc.

I been reading that and that would also explain lot of my sleeping patterns. Also I have a bad habit to keep blinds shut daily so not much regular light cycle and yeah living in a dark country too. It gets dark something like at 4pm and yeah always more energetic at spring and summer.

Should have gotten those mint melatonins, but these were cheaper and smaller package to test with. Also these have a pic of an sleeping owl with nightcap and a teddy bear, but yeah crushing these or just waiting until it dissolves in mouth. Does melatonin taste bad?

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Lightbringer wrote:
Frankly, I think it’s misusing or at least misunderstanding melatonin that gives it a bad rep. “Doesn’t work for me”, “Gives me a headache the day after”, etc. And that “time-released melatonin” should be outright banned, ‘cause that’s not what it’s for.

Whatever melatonin is supposed to do, it has zero effect on me. No sleepiness, no side-effects, nothing the next day. I’ve tried it many, many times, using different dosages and taking it at different times. The only thing it might do, is give me a slight headache if I take 10mg of it.

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MoreLumens wrote:
Does melatonin taste bad?

All that stuff tastes bad.

Just roll it up in some cheese and stick it in your mouth. That’s what I used to do with my dog. LOL

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Lightbringer wrote:
MoreLumens wrote:
Does melatonin taste bad?

All that stuff tastes bad.

Just roll it up in some cheese and stick it in your mouth. That’s what I used to do with my dog. LOL

I think I leave the cheese out of this. Just chewing it up real quickly and flush it down with water. I just hope it doesn’t also have long-acting chemical taste which really makes you wanna throw up. Sick

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MoreLumens wrote:
Woke up atleast 3-4 times last night, was sweating some too and had more dreams that I usually have and even though I woke up from them, I felt back to sleep almost instantly and they just continued.

btw, that too is classic sleep apnea. The sweating is a hint to the suffocation that woke you up, but you won’t recall it. The dreams are your body attempting process the experience in a way that keeps you asleep, but it ultimately fails and you wake up sweating.

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Joshk wrote:
MoreLumens wrote:
Woke up atleast 3-4 times last night, was sweating some too and had more dreams that I usually have and even though I woke up from them, I felt back to sleep almost instantly and they just continued.

btw, that too is classic sleep apnea. The sweating is a hint to the suffocation that woke you up, but you won’t recall it. The dreams are your body attempting process the experience in a way that keeps you asleep, but it ultimately fails and you wake up sweating.

Good thing that happened only when I tried melatonin. Usually I sleep without interruptions until morning. Also keeping my bedroom chill as possible, usually few degrees less vs. living room.

Are those umm, what are those fancy things you put on your wrist that monitors your health or something like that, smart watches maybe? Yeah do they give any info if you have some suffocation going on?

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Ah, yes, a pulse oximeter with logging is a good budget way to do a DIY sleep study. I have this one from 2018.

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I do understand wanting to experiment on your own… One more thing you might try is a bottle of generic Flonase from Walmart. Take a few hits an hour before bed, and if you wake up more refreshed than usual, great. If not, it was cheap.

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I take generic Flonase and generic Allegra.

I think the most you are supposed to take of Flonase is two spays per nostril per 24 hours.

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What about xylometazoline?

Also pulse oximeter sounds like an good idea. Maybe something that it’s bit easier vs. Finger model.

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I’ve never heard of xylometazoline until now. Side effects include trouble sleeping, headache, etc. Probably not a good diagnostic tool since the side effects are similar to the issues you are trying to reduce. It’s also not recommended for more than 7 days use.

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I been using that sometimes when I got really blocked nose and in allergy season. No problems with that and I just wonder how nasal sprays would help after all? Are they like preventing airways to get blocked which would result snoring and that obstructive sleep apnea?

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MoreLumens wrote:

I just wonder how nasal sprays would help after all? Are they like preventing airways to get blocked which would result snoring and that obstructive sleep apnea?

I think they would help you breath through your nose.

(I take Flonase and Allegra because I have allergies.)

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There’s multiple ways it might help. #1, maybe you are mildly alergic to the dust or mold in your pillow, and that is affecting you. #2, maybe you are mildly alergic to the detergent or fabric softener in the sheets. #3, maybe you do have sleep apnea, and the situation snow-balls into more and more inflammation in your sinuses/throat later in the night.
It doesn’t hurt to try it as far as I know. But I’m not a doctor.

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I haven’t noticed any breathing issues, my nose seems to be open and air flow is ok at evenings and at the mornings too. Still who knows what happens in sleep. I do change my pillow cover once a week, at mid week I turn the pillow over, I don’t use any softeners and detergent is tested and approved by allergy and asthma something. I do know that I don’t like any fake smells or perfumes or stuff like that and with chemicals I think that less is more. Even though this is a bit unrelated info. LOL

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MoreLumens wrote:
Lightbringer wrote:
MoreLumens wrote:
Does melatonin taste bad?

All that stuff tastes bad.

Just roll it up in some cheese and stick it in your mouth. That’s what I used to do with my dog. LOL

I think I leave the cheese out of this. Just chewing it up real quickly and flush it down with water. I just hope it doesn’t also have long-acting chemical taste which really makes you wanna throw up. Sick

Surprisingly it’s almost tasteless. It gets gooey in mouth and sticks in your teeth though. I can taste the corn starch, but no fowl chemical taste. Real sticky, water won’t flush it off that easily. Well now I have something to do before I get sleepy.

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