Do we need a flashlight (parts) store in the EU?

Yeah, i guess so…

This is sad news indeed. :frowning:

I feel lucky being in France when i read all the other sad stories regarding batteries import restrictions in many places. So far we can pretty much import anything without questions… Not sure how much is allowed before being subjected to taxes but it used to be around 100 euro - i’m usually well below on my chinese orders.

That said, i recently sent my MF-01 head to Lexel in Germany and it cost me more then 12 euro for 350g. When he sent it back to me it was only 3.60…!!!

Just inside France, the least you can expect to pay for shipping is 5-6 euro, and it may well go over 10 if the item size is above some dimension. I’m always puzzled when i place a $1-$2 order on AE and find it in my mail box 10-15 days later. This is certainly unfair to any business in EU. But then Amazon and a couple other stores adopted a “free shipping” policy regardless of the order. I can buy a single 8 euro book and receive it a couple days later no shipping fees.

There are a lot of things i don’t really get about postal services and the costs of shipping across borders or continents… :person_facepalming:

I wanna revive this thread, to vent…

In the last weeks, eventually months, I’ve started to get annoyed with one thing: lack of drivers to mod my lights.

Lexel has been out of business for a while (I hope he is better and recoverning!!!), and he used to be my main “supplier” of drivers to mod my lights, be it in 17mm, 15mm or in diameters. The drivers with Bistro HD OTSM and even drivers with Anduril are what I wanted, needed the most, as they are my favourite UIs.

led4power has also been “out of business” (although he hopefully will return soon and with more novelties and good stuff for us), but that makes it another gap as for getting good stuff to mod lights. The options are somehow limited to 17mm drivers, but they are good. And the leds available are pretty neat too!

Being LEDs and drivers what I/we need the most (not forgetting the other pieces as spacers, but kiriba-ru is still around), what options do we have in EU/Europe? Few to none, I guess! At least with theirs quality and reliability.

Buying from the USA (MTN) is quite expensive due to shipping and customs fees, although they have a variety of choice (specially different UIs in the drivers)
Buying drivers from China is somehow limited to what they offer (although Convoy and Kaidomain have good stuff, as Intl-Outdoor).

But I feel we are somehow limited in terms of options here in the old continent…

I wish I had the know how to make stuff, but that ain’t gonna happen… :person_facepalming:

This is not a solution, just a vent… :weary:

Led4Power is not “out of business”… He is doing some serious large orders for larger costumers…

I also currently have small order of 500 drivers from him and that is even not comparable to his larger orders… My order are peanuts…

So when you are occupied with some serious business you really don’t have much time for small business… But I am pretty sure L4P will find a way and time for small business in Europe.

It is just a matter of time…

Don’t take me wrong, and please don’t misinterpret my words :wink:

I know that since last year he’s been working in the store and in other “large orders”, he said it himself . So, I , and the people reading the led4power thread know that he is still in business. And that he’ll be back (the earthquake was also a setback)…

But the thing is: is the store open? No! That is what I am referring to.

I am not a store owner so that I can/need/want to order dozens or hundreds of drivers or leds or whatever.
No, I’m just a hobbyist needin some drivers and leds to mod my modest flashlights. So, I won’t contribute much to the business.

But this thread is probably for that, to emphasize how we lack more options or at least more stable options here in EU/Europe to get good stuff. Even if us, smaller customers, do not generate hundreds of € or $ to maintain a business running :weary: Sad me :person_facepalming:

1st of July Germany takes VAT without exemption limit. Means: Paying VAT + VAT handling through DHL. VAT is not the problem, handling cost is (or cost for driving to customs). UK as an inexpensive EU port to China is gone due to Brexit, and LED4Power is down and will only reopen for clearance, if I understood correctly.

We’re screwed.

Not only Germany… All EU countries will pay an additional Customs tax on everything we order outside EU.

Until now we could actually buy something under 20 Euro value without paying tax but things will change now.

But don’t worry. China sellers will find a way like EU warehouses, duty free shipping etc… But price will rise for sure.

I’m curious, what kind of customer orders significantly more than 500 driver?
Only a flashlight manufacturer comes to my mind but I haven’t heard of one that would use L4P drivers.

A flashlight driver is quite close to any other led driver, he may be into non-flashlight lighting business?

My drivers from L4P will be my own drivers under my OEM so maybe that why you don’t see any manufacturer uses L4P brand OEM drivers :wink:

You can place “Agro” drivers order from L4P(which of course is your own driver with your desired characteristic) and Led4Power will made them for you.
Of course there is MOQ (minimum order quantity) for that.

But some EU guy could lead group buy for drivers and if there is lets say 100 of us from EU and if we’ll commit to buy lets say 5 drivers per person. That is 500 drivers. And the guy who will lead group buy thread have every right to earn some $ cause there is some job with packing all of them and sending to group buy addresses.

I did talked with L4P and he can of course make any kind of driver but his passion are flashlight drivers and he is preparing something really cool… I don’t want to spoil surprise for community but it will(or should be) better than LD 4 series and yet unseen in flashaholic world…

I understand that. But the L4P drivers are quite unique and I thought they would be somewhat recognisable.

We posted at same time… Yes… They will be unique (see post 63).

I hope he will offer buck or boost or maybe software stabilized Anduril compatible popular size drivers and of course for like 15eu shipped ;))

It’s not an additional tax, it’s a fixed price the courier takes for invoicing VAT. If the chinese companies would do this job, I’d be fine with it. But I just cannot justify driving 45 km to the customs office and back for a $5 order. Or pay 6 EUR to DHL for a tax of 95 ct.

The future will be even darker when China has to pay real money for shipping their goods. Isn’t this already the case for the USoA?

I think governments are trying to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
Today national posts are loosing money from delivering huge amount of inexpensive goods. Same time customs are loosing money by managing (opening, estimating costs, printing extra documents) this packages with inexpensive internals.
Easy and effective solution is some fixed tax - buyer will be not interested in 2€ screen protector from China if it will go with 10€ tax bill. I think such scheme have been implemented in some Scandinavian countries (correct me if I’m not right).
Local warehouse will not help enthusiasts, it’s more like bux store or net market with cheap home goods - they will keep goods for housekeepers, not for flashaholics.
EU store is a great idea. From what Ive heard, EU based companies have reasonable import taxes. But managing business with many vendors that are far away and can surprise you with many months delay is always a headache.

I suppose one day countries will broke old agreements (that were signed back when China could not export more than Finland) that national post services must deliver goods transferred to them from other national post, without any extra cash for this services.

One of my hobbies are mechanical keyboards for enthusiasts, gamers/e-sports, writers/authors, and general computing. A lot of people are interested in these products and parts, I mean literally millions buy these things and this hobby is at a much higher price point than flashlights (custom/modded keyboards go from 150-1000+ $US).
Guess what - only a few web shops for mechanical keyboards exist in the US or EU - they make a living, but even they have to select carefully what to order, how to import the goods (delays, customs, …) and how to price it with expensive local shipping. And they are out of stock so frequently when you need something. It is so much easier to shop for these things on aliexpress or on Chinese web shops and the variety is about 10x better in Asia.

I don’t see flashlight parts, in contrast to other hobbies, being that popular on the consumer level. I have never met anyone IRL who was also into flashlights or modded them etc. I would love to see more US and EU based flashlight stores, but I doubt they would be commercially viable - unless they are run on a hobby basis or offer something special (mods, custom parts, …). The average basket size for flashlight parts is tiny, you need them infrequently (you don’t build a light every week), and overhead for these commercial retailers is the same as for a R/C shop or something much more popular.

In my country exist one shop which offer custom modded Convoy flashlights. They can mod your flashlight by request, also they offers different modded Convoy lights from original. And of course the prices are higher compared to China Convoy store.

Guys, I am in that business for 2 years already and I am not the store from above post. I order already assembled flashlights and sell them together with other products in a bigger online store, also keep some Convoy parts in stock. I can tell you, the parts are very difficult to manage and due to the small order size, it needs very high automation, or the labour cost will be ridiculously high per order. In my current setup, I am selling the parts quite expensive and I am loosing money on them.

Production of bulk volume of drivers is not a problem, I know a factory that can do 1000 drivers for 1 day, slower will be the sourcing of the components. About 1000 drivers is also the minimum order, so such store will need some investments. Sending unregistered post parcels (for cheap shipping) is also potential problem. Keep in mind, that for scalable business VAT and duty for China made products is also a must, EU has put a lot of controls along the way, so that bigger sales cannot pass by unnoticed.

Overall the business case doesn’t look very tempting. I have the infrastructure in place (team, system, webshop, warehouse, administration), sourcing the parts is also kind of not hard, but I am missing the business model yet, otherwise I would have done it a year ago. Do you think 1000 drivers can be sold for a month or average order is not 1 driver, but 3-4? Such things might fit the bill.