how efficient is a high lumen flash light such as an MS18 as a self defence tool?

I don't think the light from a flashlight is very useful for defending yourself.

Depending on what is legal where you live, you're better off with pepper spray, a knife, or a gun.

I don't like the idea of carrying a gun, so I go with pepper spray and a pocket knife.

My pepper spray has tear gas and ultra violet ink in it, and that would be my first line of defense if running away is not possible.

If the aggressor happens to be on his way to the toilet in the middle of the night 20,000 lumens
should be enough to keep him from falling back to sleep after the attack

There are statistics you can look up. If it’s a random attacker your best bet is to run, unless you are carrying a firearm.

The only use for a flashlight in such a scenario is a weapon-light.

I agree, bet your friend you can tag them in the shoulder and hand them the light. See if it defends effectively.

Also, I’ve always said that the light source just tells you where to aim…

Efficient self defense tools were not designed for illumination, therefore they are extremely inefficient as illumination tools.

Efficient illumination tools were not designed for self defense, therefore they are extremely inefficient as self defense tools.

Form and function. One looks like an Underwood loaded G29, and the other looks like a MS18. I have both. I just don't confuse their form, therefore I do not confuse their function.

https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/61143/3

That’s why I carry one of these with me every day.

Nice warm CCT :+1:

They mostly come out at night…mostly.

It’s a pretty big flashlight, so you might be able to swing it against your attacker. That’s the only advantage in a self defense situation.

If anyone wants to provide me with a MS18 then I’ll happily be a test subject.

This was asked on Reddit too.

Here’s what I replied:

Let’s do some maths!

The MS18 is rated at 1350m throw. That means a surface 1350m away has 0.25 lux cast on it. That’s as bright as things lit up by a full moon. Once eyes get used to this then it’s easily enough for a night hike. Of you looked at an MS18 from that distance then it would look as bright as a full moon.

If you half the distance then there’s 4 times as much light hitting a surface.

  • At 40 meters there’s about 250 lux. That’s about the same as room lighting. Shine a MS18 at a room across the street and your neighbors will think they left a light on. If they looked at your flashlight then it’d be like looking at a light bulb in the same room.
  • At 20 meters there’s about 1000 lux. That’s like an overcast day. Looking up at the sky where the sun is can start to get uncomfortable.
  • At 5 meters there’s about 20,000 lux. That’s the same as a shadow on a bright sunny day.
  • At 2m there about 100,000 lux that’s like a bright summer day. So that would be as bright as looking directly at the sun (don’t do that). The sun is mostly dangerous due to UV though, so while the MS18 would look bright, it still wouldn’t hurt.

It might buy you a few seconds.

Light by itself is minimally effective at best, since attackers always approach from behind. You won’t even see it coming. Only way an attacker presents himself to his victim is if they’re stoned, drunk, determined or raging pissed. Under such mental conditions light (by itself) once again is not stopping them.

IMHO light is more of a preventive tool to evade and avoid a situation. Identify threatening situations, and avoid before they are close enough to become threatening.

Best left to identifying your target.

You need high candela to blind someone, at least 100,000 candela is minimum. I was blasted in the face with a catapult v6 on turbo with 140,000 candela and I was completely blinded for 10 seconds and for minutes after my vision was impared. Use something like a lep like the weltool w4 that has 1.8 million candela. It will blind someone for a long time for sure and probably cause your attacker permanent vision damage.

My take is that light is a force multiplier but has some application as a defensive tool in the right situations.

As someone who has experience boxing, a trained individual yielding a high powered flashlight against an opponent WILL have the upper hand in exchanging as they will not see the punches coming. An untrained individual is probably riding their luck although the sudden burst of light on night adapted eyes will likely buy you a few seconds to swing or run.

Other than that, the most critical survival skill is situational awareness. Be aware of your surroundings and you will likely (but not completely) avoid most dangerous situations.

As a “professional” I use a light to identify my target. Lots of training and practice, light is a Plus. Little to no training and practice it’s a Hindrance. Your flashlight should be very simple and stout if wanted as a defensive tool that can be offensive. Getting into mindset “flashlight defender-which mode to blind” “Aggressor-bash in face until not moving, then steal everything” With a slightly different mindset use light to identify target while obscuring yourself. If that fails run or beat him with the light like a baby seal. Also remember shining that light into someone’s face could turn some into that aggressor you’re trying to avoid. My tactical light has on/off only with a semi-sharp bezel. My duty light has a few modes and holds a cone for traffic work.

I mean anything in hand is a force multiplier compared to having nothing…. even with boxing training you wouldn’t be using THIS specific flashlight as it has more in common with a medieval mace and trying to swing that thing around would cause the user more harm than anything….

Not a professional, but agree with this mindset. I keep a long tube convoy L2 by the door in case I hear something in the yard, or in case I need to smack a bad guy in the face with it while I grab something more deterrent for defense that uses gunpowder.

I think candela and intensity to the eyes of a bad guy could buy you some time, but I wouldn't count on it with a determined or amped up attacker. It might work on an animal like a coyote or bear or something.

With humans, even a blinded attacker can still lunge at you with something sharp or "empty the clip and let the Lord decide," to quote Junior from Reno 911.

Then again, depending on your situation, most people are not likely to get attacked by John Wick, much less the russian mafia who killed his poor puppy. You're probably statistically better-off making sure your fire extinguisher works.

Yes, agreed but i think the OP was specifically referring to an item that by itself is not necessarily considered a weapon, otherwise we would simply be referring to knives, gun etc which i assume are illegal to carry where OP is from.

Put it this way, light identifies a target at a distance in less than optimal light conditions. It also can obscure/stun/disorient that individual in most cases for at least a few seconds. The bodies natural reaction is to squint or cover your eyes. This creates a window of opportunity for you to run/attack etc although unless you are trained i would definitely recommend running.

I personally think the MS18 would be overkill and unweidly, but held by the right hand like a dagger in an orthodox stance IS going to create problems for an assailant who is not carrying a gun/knife. Hell, just holding a light that bright on turbo in the underarm position is going to create problems for anyone in its close proximity.

Obviously the range of tactical flashlights with a tail switch would be more appropriate. My advice to OP would be to take boxing/martial art lessons if you are really concerned about self defence…fitness, footwork and angles would leave me far more confident than carrying a flashlight

try it if it is all you have

but i would never depend on it doing anything

what about day time robberies?

attacker can just close his eyes

too many problems

To answer my own question. Having owned the MS18 now , i can confirm i would not want this flash light shown at my face for even a split second on the 60,000 lumens mode. Even looking at the light from the side while it is on is blinding and leaves temporary bright marks on your eyes which last for 10-20 minutes or so. P.S. This is also in a well lit room.