WildTrail WT90 - SBT90.2 1800m+ throw 90mm 3x 21700 With Texas_Ace driver

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Artiet59
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Tom E wrote:

That MF02S v2 rating of 6500 lumens is way out there. I see Flashaholic got more reasonable #‘s, think 4800 at 30 secs, 5600 at turn on. I’m even surprised it got 5600 lumens at turn on – that’s impressive for a SBT90.2 in a factory stock light.


I’m assuming the short MF02S v2 has 4 parallel cells?


I agree, and i’ve shared this before, but i’ve come to reign in my expectations on the lumens of the sbt90.2 (just because i’ve seen enough reviews on these lights online and their lumen ratings form members like Matt smith and flashoholic) that it is much more realistic to achieve 4200-5000 lumens, or so it seems. Like with Lumintop and astrolux specifically, claiming 6500 lumens, it just seems like when they’re tested by end users they dont achieve that, stock that is.

The mf02s V2 looks like 2s2p, (2 batteries facing positive up, 2 facing positive down), so i think thats what that means right?

Also, when i do “battery check”(5 clicks from off, iirc) it counts out up to “8, 4” with flashes on the button light. So.. 8.4 volts of course.

donttellmywifei...
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I am Interested in a silver one please, what a Great design – it is a Beautiful light!

Texas_Ace
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zoulas wrote:
If they are ever mass produced, I am in for one of each color.

Why wait until then? The price will be higher at that point?

Also, “mass production” is a relative term, they don’t plan on kicking out a 1000 of these like larger companies. This group buy will really set the tone for how many they make long term. It will remain for sale after the group buy though.

Texas_Ace
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Tom E wrote:

That MF02S v2 rating of 6500 lumens is way out there. I see Flashaholic got more reasonable #‘s, think 4800 at 30 secs, 5600 at turn on. I’m even surprised it got 5600 lumens at turn on – that’s impressive for a SBT90.2 in a factory stock light.


I’m assuming the short MF02S v2 has 4 parallel cells?

Unless they have higher bin SBT90.2’s now I don’t see 5600 lumens, the GT90 which uses 8 cells and runs around ~30A of current can just manage 5k lumens IIRC.

The MF02S v2 must have a buck driver if the cells are 2s2p, and getting a 30A buck driver is no small feat as we all know. Something doesn’t add up, maybe they found a much higher bin SBT90.2?

Artiet59
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Texas_Ace wrote:
Tom E wrote:

That MF02S v2 rating of 6500 lumens is way out there. I see Flashaholic got more reasonable #‘s, think 4800 at 30 secs, 5600 at turn on. I’m even surprised it got 5600 lumens at turn on – that’s impressive for a SBT90.2 in a factory stock light.


I’m assuming the short MF02S v2 has 4 parallel cells?

Unless they have higher bin SBT90.2’s now I don’t see 5600 lumens, the GT90 which uses 8 cells and runs around ~30A of current can just manage 5k lumens IIRC.

The MF02S v2 must have a buck driver if the cells are 2s2p, and getting a 30A buck driver is no small feat as we all know. Something doesn’t add up, maybe they found a much higher bin SBT90.2?


for what its worth, Martin’s original groupbuy thread (https://budgetlightforum.com/node/73105) has a claim by Astrolux that they are using a “35 amp Constant Current Driver”. I dont see that claim on the sales listing on BG anywhere, so no telling if that ever happened. But 35 amp CC seems .. expensive? I don’t know.
Texas_Ace
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Artiet59 wrote:
Texas_Ace wrote:
Tom E wrote:

That MF02S v2 rating of 6500 lumens is way out there. I see Flashaholic got more reasonable #‘s, think 4800 at 30 secs, 5600 at turn on. I’m even surprised it got 5600 lumens at turn on – that’s impressive for a SBT90.2 in a factory stock light.


I’m assuming the short MF02S v2 has 4 parallel cells?

Unless they have higher bin SBT90.2’s now I don’t see 5600 lumens, the GT90 which uses 8 cells and runs around ~30A of current can just manage 5k lumens IIRC.

The MF02S v2 must have a buck driver if the cells are 2s2p, and getting a 30A buck driver is no small feat as we all know. Something doesn’t add up, maybe they found a much higher bin SBT90.2?


for what its worth, Martin’s original groupbuy thread (https://budgetlightforum.com/node/73105) has a claim by Astrolux that they are using a “35 amp Constant Current Driver”. I dont see that claim on the sales listing on BG anywhere, so no telling if that ever happened. But 35 amp CC seems .. expensive? I don’t know.

Interesting, maybe they pulled off a high current driver. If it was actually driven at 35A then over 5k lumens should be possible.

Yes, a driver like that would be quite expensive, although I have a feeling they went the cheap method to cut costs but in this use case it would still do the job. Still not cheap by our standards though.

mbp
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Interested in one in silver/bare ano, price for performance is very very good.

Tom E
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Just for fyi, from my HK90 tear down (https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1711135#comment-1711135):

Now for the ultimate test - solder topped 30T cells, fully charged:

  • lumens start-30secs: 20500 - 17580 (Tom E @'s), 18090 - 15510 (maukka cal'ed)
  • 820 kcd (1811 meters)

So that's 6030 lumens per LED at start. I used 18 AWG wires, 3 pairs, and 20 AWG spring bypasses.

Texas_Ace
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Tom E wrote:

Just for fyi, from my HK90 tear down (https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1711135#comment-1711135):


Now for the ultimate test – solder topped 30T cells, fully charged:



  • lumens start-30secs: 20500 – 17580 (Tom E @‘s), 18090 – 15510 (maukka cal’ed)

  • 820 kcd (1811 meters)


So that’s 6030 lumens per LED at start. I used 18 AWG wires, 3 pairs, and 20 AWG spring bypasses.

Did you measure the current? Either there are higher binned LED’s floating around now (very possible as these LED’s were still very new with the GT90) or the numbers from the GT90 were off it would seem as we know it was pulling 28-30A of current.

I know my numbers were bathroom readings using an L6 for “calibration”, so not exactly tip top quality lol.

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No, didn't measure amps but might by rigging up something like this I did on a HK04:

Details here: https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1620102#comment-1620102

but measured 37 amps from 3 batteries driving 4 XHP50.2 3V's.

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Interested in silver, looks great!

Artiet59
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Just grabbed (3) Samsung 40t’s on (https://www.18650batterystore.com/collections/21700-batteries/products/s...). In case anyone has been looking for some, they must’ve restocked yesterday.

You aren’t going to like the price though. First time they have been this expensive. I probably should’ve went with the Lishen.. or vtc6.. I would’ve went with the molicel p42a if they were in stock.

Anyway figured I’d mention it fir this light.

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Prototype arrived, that was quick! Impressive looks!

Arrived safely in many bubble wrap envelopes (smile):

Glamour shots (it's not editable or chewable, so why is it in front of me? frown):

The finning is well done, and the light is much lighter than it looks, but of course I may be used to Haikelites. I'll take some #'s.

It appears to be raw aluminum. The pictures brings out scratches I can't even notice by eye, but the quality and distinct patterns look well done.

The carrier also looks like quality work:

That's it for now.

Yokiamy
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That’s fast!
Can’t wait for your findings

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Dude, that dog does not look happy. Get him a bone asap.
LOL

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I like your cute dog.  Love
Artiet59
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Awesome you received it so fast! wow!

Thanks TA for the quick shipping to Tom across the country!

And this is why i love reviews so much, the pictures you have taken make it look so much.. different? more real? i dont know, but it looks really good, thanks for the pictures so far! Seeing the black actually makes me think i would be happy with either, but of course Ill be buying silver – I just hope its not raw like you have noticed and that they clear anodize the uncolored aluminum. But the black anodization looks like quality too, as does that battery carrier! this is going to be an immediate buy for me.

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She's a black lab named Cali. We got her from the Guide Dog Foundation, so bred as a service dog, but cut from the program before the intense training began because of a minor med issue. She's smart, trains easily, calm demeanor and great with people, kids, and other dogs. Only trained her to fetch the paper and help bringing in the trash cans - she'll carry a cover.

Texas_Ace
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The silver versions WILL be clear ano coated, the prototype is as well.

The difference vs most clear lights you see if I specifically told them to not bead blast it before ano (this is standard practice unless specifically instructed not to).

This is why you can still see the machine marks and it feels so nice and crisp.

The ano is important for long term as raw aluminum will corrode over time otherwise.

Artiet59
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Texas_Ace wrote:
The silver versions WILL be clear ano coated, the prototype is as well.

The difference vs most clear lights you see if I specifically told them to not bead blast it before ano (this is standard practice unless specifically instructed not to).

This is why you can still see the machine marks and it feels so nice and crisp.

The ano is important for long term as raw aluminum will corrode over time otherwise.


Absolutely, this is great to hear. I also like the raw “machine-mark” looks too, if there are any edges to be broken down ill handle it myself Smile

That Aluminum bezel looks So Good!

Glad to hear it is coated though, cleaning the corrosion that happens on raw aluminum is Not a chore i envy, as it is much more difficult (in many cases) than other metals like copper and brass. Its, as many know i’m sure, an oxide layer that forms on the porosity of the aluminum and it is not easy to remove, well at least without chemicals that is!

Artiet59
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Tom E – what a great dog you have there. Glad to meet her! Looks like she has some room to stretch her legs in those woods too Thumbs Up

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yeah, she is a good looking dog. Also surprised it made it there that fast and good pics. I have just been too swamped to do any picture taking and they didn’t want the prototype to be the first thing people saw as they think it is a mess with the mismatched body lol.

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I was thinking clever marketing ploy. Make people buy two to get the zebra look. Of course richbuff was already going to buy two.

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Robin Dobbie wrote:
I was thinking clever marketing ploy. Make people buy two to get the zebra look. Of course richbuff was already going to buy two.

lol, yeah I think it looks good this way as well.

Artiet59
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Robin Dobbie wrote:
I was thinking clever marketing ploy. Make people buy two to get the zebra look. Of course richbuff was already going to buy two.
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I think it’s a very good product, I’m interested in buying a clear silver one, thank you.

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Weight

I used to think the more metal, the better, but I've been backing off of that reasoning because a mass of metal will hold heat longer. More mass might help in the first few seconds, but dissipating that heat is a slow process, not to mention the carry weight can get ridiculously awkward.

Here's some weights taken with similar lights I have:

WT90:  756 g

HK90:  1126 g

MF02:  812 g

MT07:  807 g

MT03:  563 g

TN31:  567 g

 Out of this list, the HK90 is basically the exact same size (same height, same width at the bezel and battery tube). The MF02 and MT07 are smaller lights, but still heavier. The MT03 is a very different compact design, heavy for it's size. The TN31 is perhaps similar to the WT90 in that it's relatively light for it's size, but is a smaller light.

  

Tests with the Vapcell T50

The nice thing about the carrier is that it has no flat top blockers around the + end contact, so I can use the stock Vapcell T50's with their recessed + end.

With the T50's fully charged to 4.21V, using the Maukka calibrated lumens tube (TA style):

  • lumens at start: 5333
  • lumens at 30 secs: 4857
  • throw, taken at 5m on an Extech LT45: 979 kcd

With the same cells after about 1 minute on turbo from the tests above, paused a few minutes, then ran a 4 minute test. Interesting that the lumens actually started out slightly higher than the previous test, but could be minimum random results from re-positioning the light. I took readings every 15 seconds. In summary, this is what it looks like.

 

    start      30 s    1 min     2 min     3 min     4 min

   5363     4896    4824      4727      4648      4581

 

  • The batteries were pulled and measured 4.07V at this point, after about 5 minutes of turbo runtime
  • I forgot to take temp measurements, but a little late, maybe 30 secs after the test complete I measured 46C at the hottest spot on the outside, near the switch
  • It was a bit uncomfortable to hold for a length of time, but certainly could be held and can easily be operated

I can't measure amps at this point with this light on 3 batteries in parallel, but it's probably about 20-24 amps, based on the measured lumens.

 

*** Note: This is all on the stock light, but it is still a prototype, so results may depend on what mods are done going to production, if any.

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Thanks Tom, these numbers sound very nice!

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Texas_Ace wrote:
Tom E wrote:

That MF02S v2 rating of 6500 lumens is way out there. I see Flashaholic got more reasonable #‘s, think 4800 at 30 secs, 5600 at turn on. I’m even surprised it got 5600 lumens at turn on – that’s impressive for a SBT90.2 in a factory stock light.


I’m assuming the short MF02S v2 has 4 parallel cells?

Unless they have higher bin SBT90.2’s now I don’t see 5600 lumens, the GT90 which uses 8 cells and runs around ~30A of current can just manage 5k lumens IIRC.

The MF02S v2 must have a buck driver if the cells are 2s2p, and getting a 30A buck driver is no small feat as we all know. Something doesn’t add up, maybe they found a much higher bin SBT90.2?


.
Hi Texas Ace Big Smile
Could you please tell me how you checked you lumens so I can make adjustment on my Lumen tube calculation. Mine is off and using a MT35 PLUS with your 90.2 kit with 8 × 30Q’s and 22A, I got 5800 L at turn on.
.
Tom E
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On the Noctigon K1 w/SBT90.2, after spring bypasses I got 5410 at turn on with a 30T, 22.3 amps measured. The bypasses gave it a nice bump, up from 4850.

On a GT90, kit modified, I estimated about 5600 lumens. I can't fit the GT90's head in my lumens tube, so did some comparative tests off of the glass, and approximated the GT90's reading.

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