Luminus's new emitter with circular die

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Slim Pickens
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Luminus's new emitter with circular die

I read about it here on Flashlight-Reviews.  SBT-70 it's called.  Is there a reason why the modern LED die has traditionally been rectangular?  Anyway, Luminus sure knows how to name 'em don't they?

scaru
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So who's going to be the first to try them out? I found the link to the flashlight and emailed the company to ask how much it is. 

http://www.vb-16.com/en/show_imgnews.asp?id=452

CEHepp
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Worthless without pics so here you go:

Zebralight S6330 – Zebralight SC600w – Zebralight SC52 – Zebralight SC51w – EagleTac D25A Ti 219 – 4Sevens Quark Turbo AA2 219 – FourSevens Preon PenLight -

Yellowhorse
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Funny! They put square LED's on round circuit boards and put round LEd's on square circuit boards. Personally, I think round LED's will be the coming "thing". Makes perfect sense to me. No need for a inefficient pattern conversion via reflector. I'll be watching this trend for sure.

bose301s
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LEDs are square because saws cut straight lines and you have very little wasted space when cutting them out. If circle LEDs are the next thing be prepared to pay more for them as specialized equipment will be needed for singulation and the usable area for die drops significantly due to wasted material.

weiser
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I'm not so brilliant but I would have to concur. Squares and rectangles rule in the manufacturing/distributing world.

 

What do you think was a primary factor bigger LCD TV's cost significantly more before they became mainstream? Cutting larger, less popular sizes outweighed the cost of the materials themselves. However, I'm not too educated about the engineering process of LED's so I never thought much about the shape. I just assumed they designed what needed to be designed. 

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In the begining ,  the projection with lens of a Xre was a bit strange for all, I think we prefer circle projection of led on the walls, but now don´t matter.

I have led lenser K3 with a nichia led and was very nice, but too poor on power, only 11 

lumens¡¡ , now I put Cree xre on LL about 140 lumens and I still prefer the squares.

But if sst70 are cheaper than sst90 we can change our "wall" projections on circle (with lens)

DARCANGEL
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I would love to see this in an aspheric setup,different than the traditional projected die square.I know the die size is big but a cool idea anyway just to experiment.

Slim Pickens
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bose301s wrote:

LEDs are square because saws cut straight lines and you have very little wasted space when cutting them out

thanks bose, makes sense.

ma_sha1
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Finally, a round led die!

 

Can wait to get my hands on them

JohnnyMac
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Round emitter dies are nothing new. They have been made by the Chinese in all the worst crap lights you can find. To me the round dies symbolize junk. Make mine square, please. Smile

Here is a link with a couple example pics: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?242143-zhong-sheng-zs...

cheaplite
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nice, but probably won't be a "budget item" for awhile

C-channel
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Take it easy on them. They make the best lights. With so little pay.

How bright is bright enough...

Runtime VS Lumens...

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C-channel wrote:

Take it easy on them. They make the best lights. With so little pay.

Agreed!  Except for the LEDs themselves. Tongue Out
charlestt
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I'm sure i've seen these being used for led headlights 

 

 

 

 http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy41/charlestt225/Sig/A1200023-1.jpg" width="159" he

scaru
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I talked to the manufacturer of the flashlight that uses it and they say it is 2000 lumens off of 2 32650 batteries. Now I just have to resist the urge to buy it. Silly

GottaZoom
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scaru wrote:

I talked to the manufacturer of the flashlight that uses it and they say it is 2000 lumens off of 2 32650 batteries. Now I just have to resist the urge to buy it. Silly

Round emitter calls for a square battery.

http://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo432650battery32v18ah576wh100aratebatteryinaluminum-box.aspx

scaru
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The data says that it puts out a maximum of 100k lux at 1m. 

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"LEDs are square because saws cut straight lines and you have very little wasted space when cutting them out".   Uh....., no not really. Look at this:  http://www.lightdirectory.com/news-Ever-Wonder-How-LEDs-Are-Made%3F.htm  

"If circle LEDs are the next thing be prepared to pay more for them as specialized equipment will be needed for singulation and the usable area for die drops significantly due to wasted material". Again....., no, not really. Currently used lasers make round shapes just as easy as square shapes. The only thing close to accurate in this statement is the (very) slightly increased wasted space per die. They might be a tiny bit more expensive but not much. As soon as another producer starts making them the price will drop. Heck, the price drops every year for square ones just because the volume of production goes up. Right? This is a common sense thing.

I forsee/predict a prefocused round LED that will eliminate the need for any kind of reflector whatsoever. Smaller, lighter, cheaper.

Knowledge is Power.

ezarc
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A round LED will be nice for zoomies and aspheric throwers. 

bose301s
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Yellowhorse wrote:

"LEDs are square because saws cut straight lines and you have very little wasted space when cutting them out".   Uh....., no not really. Look at this:  http://www.lightdirectory.com/news-Ever-Wonder-How-LEDs-Are-Made%3F.htm  

"If circle LEDs are the next thing be prepared to pay more for them as specialized equipment will be needed for singulation and the usable area for die drops significantly due to wasted material". Again....., no, not really. Currently used lasers make round shapes just as easy as square shapes. The only thing close to accurate in this statement is the (very) slightly increased wasted space per die. They might be a tiny bit more expensive but not much. As soon as another producer starts making them the price will drop. Heck, the price drops every year for square ones just because the volume of production goes up. Right? This is a common sense thing.

I forsee/predict a prefocused round LED that will eliminate the need for any kind of reflector whatsoever. Smaller, lighter, cheaper.

Knowledge is Power.

Umm, I can go over right now and see the Diamond Dicing saws at work right now if I want. Guess what they are basically circular saws, they are not lasers.

Trust me, I know how LEDs are made, I am sure I know a lot more on how LEDs are made than you, I make them myself. If you want I can educate you on the process.

scaru
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1st, this is not cree. This is luminus they may have a different method. 

2nd, yes can you educate us. Smile

bose301s
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scaru wrote:

1st, this is not cree. This is luminus they may have a different method. 

2nd, yes can you educate us. Smile

True. The part about waste is not going to change though. If you draw a grid of circles, 1 circle will touch its 4 nearest neighbors on 4 infinitely small points. In between all the connections will be a small cross of wasted scrap material that can't be used.
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Look at all the bond wires on that sucker.

 

People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid.
 
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Burro wrote:

Look at all the bond wires on that sucker.

Also makes manufacture more difficult. Wonder why they haven't moved over to a FC design.
scaru
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bose301s wrote:

scaru wrote:

1st, this is not cree. This is luminus they may have a different method. 

2nd, yes can you educate us. Smile

True. The part about waste is not going to change though. If you draw a grid of circles, 1 circle will touch its 4 nearest neighbors on 4 infinitely small points. In between all the connections will be a small cross of wasted scrap material that can't be used.

That is true, but what I would like to know is what is the expensive part of the led. The board or the other ingredients and bond wires etc. 

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Bose301s (mr. know it all) - try watching the link I posted and learn something. I can post three more from different makers of LEDs that show virtually the same thing. You want them? Saws? Really? Oh, hell no. You must be going to Fred Flintstone's LED Cave to watch something like that. I imagine folks are lining up at your door to buy your homemade LEDs. What does it cost you to do gallium arsenide deposits on the metal substrate? What class of clean room do you use? Do you even know that clean rooms come in different flavors (classes)? You must be very rich to have all this wonderful equiptment? I'm pretty sure you might know something I don't but I'm equally sure I have no interest in learning how to pick my nose in a new way. Only 16 posts and already I have some clown (Nyah nyah, I know more than you do) climbing up my butt and resorting to personal insults. Is that the best you can do, smart guy? Lame at best. I posted the link for all to see but I guess nobody bothered to look at it. Maybe you should have.

As I said before, yes, there is more waste. You were right about that. Sort of a no brainer observation though. Congrats!

bose301s
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Yellowhorse wrote:

Bose301s (mr. know it all) - try watching the link I posted and learn something. I can post three more from different makers of LEDs that show virtually the same thing. You want them? Saws? Really? Oh, hell no. You must be going to Fred Flintstone's LED Cave to watch something like that. I imagine folks are lining up at your door to buy your homemade LEDs. What does it cost you to do gallium arsenide deposits on the metal substrate? What class of clean room do you use? Do you even know that clean rooms come in different flavors (classes)? You must be very rich to have all this wonderful equiptment? I'm pretty sure you might know something I don't but I'm equally sure I have no interest in learning how to pick my nose in a new way. Only 16 posts and already I have some clown (Nyah nyah, I know more than you do) climbing up my butt and resorting to personal insults. Is that the best you can do, smart guy? Lame at best. I posted the link for all to see but I guess nobody bothered to look at it. Maybe you should have.

As I said before, yes, there is more waste. You were right about that. Sort of a no brainer observation though. Congrats!

Again I don't need to watch your link as I work in the industry, and again, I have seen with my own 2 eyes the dicing saws.

Lol, so much bad info in that post it's not even funny. Gallium Arsenide is for Red LEDs, blue LEDs are InGaN or GaN. LEDs are generally grown on Sapphire or Silicon Carbide wafers, not a metal.

I work in a class 1000 clean room, but we also have class 10,000 and 100 based on the needs of that particular manufacturing step. Obviously you have a slight knowledge of this stuff, but not very much, and definitely not as much as you think you do.

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Yellowhorse wrote:

Bose301s (mr. know it all) - try watching the link I posted and learn something. I can post three more from different makers of LEDs that show virtually the same thing. You want them? Saws? Really? Oh, hell no. You must be going to Fred Flintstone's LED Cave to watch something like that. I imagine folks are lining up at your door to buy your homemade LEDs. What does it cost you to do gallium arsenide deposits on the metal substrate? What class of clean room do you use? Do you even know that clean rooms come in different flavors (classes)? You must be very rich to have all this wonderful equiptment? I'm pretty sure you might know something I don't but I'm equally sure I have no interest in learning how to pick my nose in a new way. Only 16 posts and already I have some clown (Nyah nyah, I know more than you do) climbing up my butt and resorting to personal insults. Is that the best you can do, smart guy? Lame at best. I posted the link for all to see but I guess nobody bothered to look at it. Maybe you should have.

As I said before, yes, there is more waste. You were right about that. Sort of a no brainer observation though. Congrats!

Uhm, I think Bose works for Cree. Just saying.

Confusius Say

Take out the fortune before you eat the cookie.

bose301s
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Confusius wrote:

Yellowhorse wrote:

Bose301s (mr. know it all) - try watching the link I posted and learn something. I can post three more from different makers of LEDs that show virtually the same thing. You want them? Saws? Really? Oh, hell no. You must be going to Fred Flintstone's LED Cave to watch something like that. I imagine folks are lining up at your door to buy your homemade LEDs. What does it cost you to do gallium arsenide deposits on the metal substrate? What class of clean room do you use? Do you even know that clean rooms come in different flavors (classes)? You must be very rich to have all this wonderful equiptment? I'm pretty sure you might know something I don't but I'm equally sure I have no interest in learning how to pick my nose in a new way. Only 16 posts and already I have some clown (Nyah nyah, I know more than you do) climbing up my butt and resorting to personal insults. Is that the best you can do, smart guy? Lame at best. I posted the link for all to see but I guess nobody bothered to look at it. Maybe you should have.

As I said before, yes, there is more waste. You were right about that. Sort of a no brainer observation though. Congrats!

Uhm, I think Bose works for Cree. Just saying.

Yup, definitely not home made or Fred Flintstone LEDs.
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What a suprise! You are obviously a smart guy - maybe. For all I know, you are the janitor there. To smart to watch the video and see how others do it, eh? Or just to smug? I'm aware that different materials are used for different types of product. I saw no reason to write a book to include all the possibilities. Resorting to personal attacks because you got your feelings hurt is not smart at all. I have no idea who you work for and I don't want to know, but I can say with confidence that if you guys are currently using saws to cut out individual LEDs - you either wont be for long or you will be out of business soon. NONE of the big 4 use anything but lasers for their new products. Check it out for yourself. Do some homework and broaden your horizions. The LED industry does not start and end at your place of employment.

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