Yeah, enclosed is what I saw, too.
Yesterday and before, we ate in a restaurant, and we were the only ones in the eatin’ area. The bar section had a few sots on stools, but that was only when you walked in. Need to navigate the ‘J’ shape to get to the sit-down area.
The crazy anti-vaxxers have certainly been a problem, but that doesn’t excuse the bad behavior by the folks on the other side of the fence. The cherry picking of data is hardly one sided (to be fair at least the ‘yes this is a real problem’ folks are typically at least cherry picking from real data).
I’ve watched two of the most prolific posters in this thread laughingly insinuate it would be acceptable use violence against someone walking by them outdoors for not wearing a mask. An event where chance of infection is extremely low probability. That isn’t any better than someone suggesting they would cough on others if they tested positive.
As of yet we don’t have a clear understanding of how effective masks are. The real world studies so far have not supported the same level of effectiveness shown by controlled lab experiments. Most data suggests they do provide a level of benefit but there are too many who tend to exaggerate the extent almost as much as the anti-maskers ignore it.
If you want to make a credible argument then you need to ruthlessly fact check yourself. Don’t make the same mistakes as those parroting misinformation.
My personal experience:
I’m now ‘fully’ vaccinated (more than two weeks from my 2nd Moderna shot). No side effects after the 1st (injection site sore to the touch, but I don’t count that). The day of the 2nd shot I lost someone very close to me, so I was already pretty out of it when I got the shot. The next day I mostly slept, but not sure if that was due to the shot or mental exhaustion from the death.
Since Gov Dewine (Ohio) immediately followed the recent CDC guidelines I’m no longer required to wear a mask but I’ll go ahead and do so until 2 June when the entire ordinance expires.
My dad (74 next month) had little to no reaction to either of his shots (Pfizer). He had Covid in Dec with only minor symptoms.
His wife (69) had a strong reaction to each shot. She was hospitalized with Covid in Dec for 2 two days but recovered with no (so far) long term effects.
My children’s maternal grandfather (72?) passed away after contracting Covid last summer (in Sweden).
Only one other ‘close’ Covid death. A female friend in her early 30s.
Yeahp, that’s the problem, too. I know at least 3 people (who admitted it) that while they’re not “antivaxxers”, all the news about new strains happily mutating along, they do have serious concerns about “heightened immune response”, “ADE (antibody-dependent enhanced) immune response”, etc. Ie, what protects you fine from strain 1, 2, and 3, might make it worse for you when strain 9 hits, vs being unvaccinated at all, ie, the whole “trojan horse” dealy about how the bugs get into your cells.
Worse, when studies that were studying that were abruptly ended, it was as if it’s better to not answer the question at all vs get an unexpected (and unwanted) answer.
Even if studies could show that you’d be more likely to get hit by lightning in your basement on a dry sunny day, by simply dismissing any questions about it, or worse, make anyone who dares ask the question get labeled as an “antivaxxer”, it’s just further dividing the people, making people talk at each other vs talk with each other. So of course they’ll get answers from whatever source they find.
Hell, when I heard about that, I ended up looking for more info, and didn’t find much from mainstream sites other than “nah, don’t worry about it”. Okay, but what about the new more virulent strains popping up? Anyone study antivirals like adamantine?
Dunno, but I was a pain in the ass even back in grammar school, when the housewife “teaching” science (ie, reciting from the textbook) couldn’t answer my questions and just dismissed me with a “Now, don’t you worry your fuzzy little head over that”, like I actually could. If I have a question, I want it answered, and not a pat on the head, or worse, a label as a troublemaker.
I don’t like when either side cherrypicks data to bolster its decision, but that, like you said, seems to be the norm on both sides.
Friendly reminder to everyone...
[quote=sb56637]
Please note that the topic of this thread has been changed to:
Coronavirus **personal experiences** thread
Back when this thread got started over a year ago, there was very little reliable information about COVID, and most of us didn't quite know what to think. So this thread served its purpose with many helpful comments and links. But at this point, there is no shortage of news and/or disinformation and/or opinions and/or predictions and/or facts from any number of outlets that align with one's personal views and preferences. By now, almost everyone has drawn their own conclusions regarding COVID and nothing will change their mind. So it's no longer necessary or permitted on BLF to post links, quotes, opinions, facts, theories, or anything else apart from your own personal experiences relating to COVID.
Thanks in advance to everyone here for helping to keep the peace.
[/quote]
thanks
in my personal experience……
you have the patience of Job :+1:
I ran into a guy today I first met here in 1986. We don’t see each other often but have had business dealing every since. He operates a service business that has mostly 50 years and older clients. Prior to Covid in an average year, he told me they would have maybe a handful of clients who would die. Some years less. In the past year, they lost 30 clients, mostly 70+ years old. Huge increase when compared to his company’s historical decades-long record. I knew three of them.
I got my second (Moderna) shot two weeks ago, so I am now immunized!
I had no side effects with the first shot.
My left arm was somewhat sore for about 3 days with the second shot.
The pain was not bad, and I could sleep fine with the pain (I sleep on my side), which is what I cared about the most (concerning the pain.)
With the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines, extremely dangerous side effects are exceedingly rare, and those would be the only side effects that would make me regret getting vaccinated (for those vaccines.)
My side effects were very minor, so I consider myself lucky.
My wife and I sleep most of the day after our second Moderna shot. Felt like a hangover.
I drank alcohol from 2000 to 2006.
Sometimes I binge drank, and sometimes I drank quite a bit, but I never had a hangover in my life.
Before I started drinking, I was worried about having hangovers, but I got lucky there, too.
Lucky you. What’s the trick. You could patent that. 
This took a heavy toll on old people. I know of a 92 year old customer of mine that died. He was in good shape last time I saw him and still drove, had his wits still, slim. I just saw his obituary and it said he died in the hospital after a short illness. I have to wonder if it was covid.
I hear that hangovers are caused by dehydration because alcohol is a diuretic.
I don't drink an excessive amount of beverages that contain water, so my experience is just dumb luck. 
==
EXCERPT
The case rate among unvaccinated people susceptible to infection is 69 percent higher than the standard figures given, a Washington Post analysis determined. Infections continue among the unprotected. “It looks like fewer numbers, looks like it’s getting better, but it’s not necessarily better for those who aren’t vaccinated,” one public health researcher told The Post.
thanks
there has been a new development, requesting we no longer post news links
my personal experience is that
corona news gives me brain fog
In my state of lower saxony vaccination came to a halt and the situation is not getting better. The number of people waiting for the first shot are growing since we currently need all the vaccine to ensure people getting their second B/P shot in time. This takes a lot of momentum from the campaign. I fear the willingness to get appointments will suffer greatly from this frustration on one hand and the seasonal decline of infections on the other 
. My guess is, at some point later this year we might face a situation where there’s more vaccine available than people wanting it, and infections will grow again beginning of fall, leading to an extended face mask mandate .
I want this to end. I’m fed up with closed shops and effin masks.
I want this to end as well.
I feel sorry for those that don't live in rich countries, and therefore probably won't be able to get the vaccine very soon.
A lot of people want the vaccine, but it's just not available in many parts of the world.
My county has hit 78% fully vaccinated, 85% with the first shot of Pfizer or Moderna. Only 6 deaths attributed to Covid-19… (mind you we are just under 20,000 population), but I know/knew more than that in other parts of the state.
Wow, that's extremely high.
I wonder if your county has reached herd immunity.
...
As of one week ago, my county is 32% fully vaccinated, and 41% are at least half-vaccinated.
My county is very large in area, and I cannot find statistics for the Coachella Valley, which I think would be more relevant.
I could probably find statistics for Palm Desert or my ZIP Code if I wanted, though.
Statistically I suppose so. But, those figures are the rate on the people who live in the county. There are something like 8 to 10,000 people who commute to work from surrounding counties where the rates are something like 10 to 15% less. Still not bad.