The vast majority of orders I place I do so within the USA. Most ship via UPS or FedEX and are insured up to a certain dollar amount. They also come with a tracking number so that I can keep track of those packages. If I place an order, I absolutely believe that it is incumbent upon ME to make sure that I'M protecting my interests. I insure stuff frequently when purchasing via ebay simply because those items are often sent via USPS and the sellers often offer the insurance as an option. Insuring is obviously dependent upon the investment. I have an old van that I don't insure for physical damage at all because it's 12 years old with almost 200,000 miles on it. I also have a later model pick-up that actually has some value. It's worth replacing. That's the point of insuring. Can I afford to replace it? Do I desire to? Am I willing to eat the cost of an *accident* without complaining in the event that something goes wrong? That's how I decide--regardless of where an order originates.
In this case, a guy takes a risk by making a purchase where INSURANCE WAS OFFERED for only $5. He DECLINED. Now he wants the seller to eat the cost of a problem they didn't create. If the buyer declines insurance, then presumably it's because he can afford to lose the money in the event that something goes wrong.
I'm just no sure what is so difficult about the concept of taking responsibility for one's self. Insurance was offered. Insurance was decline. Case closed in my book.
If the seller decides to do something extra to create a sense of goodwill for a customer, then kudos to them. But there should be absolutely no expectation that they are responsible to fix a problem that didn't need to exist save the failure of a buyer to take them up on the $5 insurance to ship overseas.
Well, those "lost" packages can be returned to seller. i.e. bad written address. For example: It ends in Alabama instead of Atlanta, so when it arrives there, it will be returned because that address is wrong and doesn't exist in Alabama. Finally seller receive the package back and keeps the money. Man, I like this sort of "business" :|
Seller should know that shipping overseas could be "problematic" and must insist on registered shipping just to avoid this cases.
Not sure that forcing someone who DOESN'T want insurance is the better way. Fact is they offered insurance and the buyer intentionally and knowingly refused it. He gambled…he lost.
IMO, this fits right in with the advice, "Don't put scalding hot coffee between your legs as you drive away from the window at McDonald's" Sure, Most of the time nothing is going to happen so complacency sets in. But when something DOES happen, boy do we get burned. Then we blame McDonald's for selling *HOT* coffee.
Yes, kudos to all those (many) sellers in the East (incl ebay sellers) who do eat the costs!! If this thread helps to identify and pinpoint other sellers who are not willing to offer this kind of “extra”, then be it. My book closes in 3 weeks, and till then i am sure that people are interested in learning how this story ended and that my experience will influence their future choice of dealers.
The side question is if the dealer can afford to burn ALL (till then happy) customers who ran into the same problem of lost shipments. Maybe a few who learned the lesson will say 'thanks dear dealer for teaching me the lesson, i'll be happy to return as customer' but more (potential) customers who learned about my lesson (=experience with them) will say 'hmm good to know in advance how they handle things, lemme shop elsewhere with more confidence thanks kreisl for sharing'.
Order date was 2012-04-16. Day42 sounds good to me, thanks guys for siding with the weaker (which is always the budgeteer ;) )
Yeah, but this way they ensure that they will not refund for lost package. I.e.: you are selling something, buyer didn't received it and want a refund. Same stuff weeks later. Then you think: "I can't lose any more. Will insist on reg. ship.". Yes, you will lose those clients who don't want to pay reg.ship. but you'll ensure that you will not lose any more $$$. It's not sellers fault, but buyers neither. It's postal service, transport or whatever fault.
It's OK for expensive stuff. Of course a no-way for $4 item :bigsmile:
After 60 days total PP got your money back? With DD, as it is known, there is no need to walk along the PP route. The shopper doesnt have to fear loss; they work hard to satisfy you and are generous with replacement shipments or refunds – you only have to wait the 60 days and then contact them, for example thru the chat channel. I dont know of any customer case where DD made the customer eat the costs. I almost ordered something from them today, a cannongrey Tank E09 V2.
The aspect of gambling nullifies itself when large sellers with FREE global shipping expect a certain percentage of lost shipment claims (e.g. 0.5%) and accept to cover for the loss without questions asked.
HKE once told me that flashlights selling business is such that not with each and every sales transaction can the dealer (HKE) make a profit. As soon as the buyer returns the torch (repair/warranty/..) or reports a missing shipment, all earned profits are eaten or even actual financial loss is generated. HKE states that this happens, it's the nature of the flashlight business, and is sad .. but frank customer satisfaction be of higher priority. Yeah, kudos to them.
I certainly regret, stingy as i am, not having ordered with them .. their price would have been 5$ higher than the U.S. dealer.
I ordered a large number of parts from CNQG a couple or 3 months ago. I placed the order after my dry was stuck at us customs for a month. At the time unregistered mail was shipping quicker so I figured I'd split my parts order into 2 shipments via unregistered mail instead of just one in case one got lost. As my luck would have it NEITHER ever showed up after 6 weeks.
I contacted Ric and he resent both orders in one registered package and it arrived safely yesterday. Now THAT'S great customer service!!!
Who knows, maybe the others will show up in another month or two but I doubt it.
Normally, all my stuff got to me eventually. Except two times of "supposedly" lost package. And these two just happens to be a "promised" replacement from two ebay seller for wrong/defective parts I received.
Hmmm... what a coincidence...
So in ebay, if you can, don't accept any "resend", just ask for refund/partial :)
I have given the CS chat a try. The Otta_ clone I spoke with appeared to be from the shallow end of the gene pool and didn't get (or pretended not to get) the problem despite me sending pics and describing the issue in simple terms several times (note: this was not the lost order case, but another issue I had with one of my other orders).
Regarding the lost order I opened a ticket through their support system. The response to my ticket was that I should wait. I told them that as a precaution I will open a dispute with Paypal before 45 days and I informed them a couple of days before I had to escalate the dispute to a claim that I had not received the order and I would like a refund. After that I received a refund.
The fact that I was given the runaround by the CS chat and having had issues with all my orders from DD I opened the dispute since I didn't trust DD. After that I have not ordered anything from DD and I'm not going to order again from DD.
Okay, since we are having a friendly debate on this, let me clarify.
I have sent Ebay items that I am selling for over $200, I am sending them USPS, I do not insure! Am I gambling? My answer is no.
Let me go deeper, a 1000 to 1 is not gambling even 500 to 1. Almost a sure thing. IMO, that is the chances that you lose something in the mail. Also when I order something, I never take out insurance. If it is lost, or I don't get it, I go to the seller and settle it there. If there is a problem, I go to Ebay and or Paypal. I am like the OP, insurance adds to the price. Now, there are instances where I might take out insurance, but they are very, very small.
Again, we are not gambling when we don't take out insurance on orders, overseas or nationwide..
In the interest of friendly debate, you do understand that gambling is all about playing ODDS, right? And you just gave me your rationale based on ODDS. You even stated that it is *almost* a sure thing, indicating that it's NOT a sure thing. Now aside from wondering where you got your statistics, the term still generally fits. On the other hand, the phrase "it's a gamble" doesn't really mean you're gambling, but instead that some level of risk is involved, which solely based on the fact that the package HASN'T arrived as expected, would seem somewhat without need of mentioning.
woah. that sounds like good news, thanks. i am full of hope that the little package (worth 32$) is still somewhere somehow in transit and i am really willing to wait patiently the 60d total because i never had any lost shipments till now: since Oct 2011 i handled ~60 shipments (incl. 6 outgoing) and every single shipment (most of which without tracking number) got to its destination, eventually. it means that i dont believe in lost shipments: shipping to my address is safe. what bugs me is Flashlights USA's righteous attitude which lets me down and drives me into calling for PP. i will have a bad conscience when i eventually receive the package. Disputing via PP is not nice
Perhaps I'm being simplistic, but it strikes me that if I order something, I expect to receive it.
All very well for the seller to try to pass the risk of non-delivery onto the buyer via an insurance company (for which, presumably,he receives a hefty commission ). OK, it isn't the seller's fault, but it sure as hell ain't mine if it doesn't arrive. Seems to me that the seller should build in to his price the very small risk of stuff getting lost in the post without trying to pass the cost of doing so onto the buyer through "insurance".
And really, do you suppose many of these companies take out a genuine insurance policy, or just take the risk themselves?
No argument there. But if the seller does everything on their part to ensure it gets there, then what's the beef with them?
Huh? Who receives the commission, the seller? I've insured many a package when shipping via UPS and I've never received a 'commission' from it.
So there's absolutely no responsibility on the part of the buyer to even verify that the one with whom they've contracted insures their shipments? If that's actually a concern of the buyer, I would think that the buyer would check that out BEFORE he buys. Surely everyone understands that there's a possibility that a shipment could get lost/stolen in transit--even MORE so when the shipper offers the OPTION of insuring the shipment. If having the seller insure the shipment is important, and if the buyer thinks that it should be the seller's responsibility, then why didn't the buyer simply cancel the order before clicking 'confirm' on the order page. Because he thought he could beat the odds, that's why. And when he didn't, he blamed the seller for his own failure to apply foresight to his situation or his unwillingness to accept the consequences.
I suppose the seller should be able to read the mind of the buyer and should click 'cancel order' automatically if the buyer doesn't choose the insurance option?
So? What's it matter if they are taking all the risk themselves or if they are allowing a third party to remove or dilute their risk? I don't see what that has any bearing on the issue at all.
