True Color Rendition (TCR)..........

105 posts / 0 new
Last post

Pages

nottawhackjob
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 4 min ago
Joined: 01/07/2013 - 14:13
Posts: 1335
True Color Rendition (TCR)..........

Ya know CRI is all fine and good butt to be quite honestly frank I find it ridiculously tedious.

Soooo…..last nite as I’m watering plants I whip out my new Ti3 and Trustfire Mini2. The Ti3 being recently de-domed gave much better TCR to my eyes than the stock NW. The Mini2 being de-domed already not so much.

Point being of this mini-rant is that I’m devising my own CRI standard from now on.

I will ‘calibrate’ a flash by shining it on one of my favorite paintings. I know its true colors like the back of my wife’s hand. Shocked

On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the most accurate TCR if a flash renditions the painting colors as I know they should be then it gets of course a higher rating.

The plants last nite with the de-domed Ti3 got an 8.5 TCR. That’s pretty dam good cuz the Mini2 got a 5.

There ya have it. Another useless to many Notta Rant butt a rant’s a rant. Shocked Silly

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

Edited by: nottawhackjob on 07/12/2021 - 15:44
Unheard
Unheard's picture
Offline
Last seen: 48 min 7 sec ago
Joined: 01/16/2019 - 11:38
Posts: 2204
Location: Germany

FWIW, the Mini2’s LED is domeless.

https://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/threads/kurzvorstellung-trustfire-min...

So yes, it likely wasn’t dedomed.

Too bad it’s got a mere 5 whackopoints. But(!) the beam is nice with it’s huge spill and the focussed LED, isn’t it?

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

MoreLumens
MoreLumens's picture
Offline
Last seen: 43 min 51 sec ago
Joined: 10/25/2019 - 07:08
Posts: 1628
Location: Finland

You didn’t happen to smoke some of those plants too?

nottawhackjob
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 4 min ago
Joined: 01/07/2013 - 14:13
Posts: 1335

Unheard wrote:
FWIW, the Mini2’s LED is domeless.

https://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/threads/kurzvorstellung-trustfire-min...

So yes, it likely wasn’t dedomed.

Too bad it’s got a mere 5 whackopoints. But(!) the beam is nice with it’s huge spill and the focussed LED, isn’t it?

Oh yeah I like it don’t get me wrong. I doooo REALLY like that Mini spill!!!!! Outfookingstanding.

Wear it now with a leather strap ‘round my neck. So handy. Sheeiiiit, just got the Mini2 couple days ago butt I was hoping to de-dome it too. LOL

Ok on second thot I’ll give it a 6.0 TCR. Maybe 6.5 if I pretend I de-domed it. LOL Thumbs Up Beer

PS. Gotta find a way to warm it up some. Any ideas? Grad

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

nottawhackjob
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 4 min ago
Joined: 01/07/2013 - 14:13
Posts: 1335
MoreLumens wrote:
You didn’t happen to smoke some of those plants too?

Hay!!!!

I did. Not. Unless smokin’ a Lantana gets you off too. LOL Shocked

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

MoreLumens
MoreLumens's picture
Offline
Last seen: 43 min 51 sec ago
Joined: 10/25/2019 - 07:08
Posts: 1628
Location: Finland
nottawhackjob wrote:
MoreLumens wrote:
You didn’t happen to smoke some of those plants too?

Hay!!!!

I did. Not. Unless smokin’ a Lantana gets you off too. LOL Shocked

Colorful flowers. Now that explains.

nottawhackjob
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 4 min ago
Joined: 01/07/2013 - 14:13
Posts: 1335

“Colorful flowers. Now that explains.”

Here I got a Fin and his southern October Fester (which once wanted to invade said neighbor’s saunas) bustin’ MY agates! The humanity!!!!

Well all’s fair in love and flashes. LOL Love Kiss Beer

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

Unheard
Unheard's picture
Offline
Last seen: 48 min 7 sec ago
Joined: 01/16/2019 - 11:38
Posts: 2204
Location: Germany

nottawhackjob wrote:
Unheard wrote:
FWIW, the Mini2’s LED is domeless.

https://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/threads/kurzvorstellung-trustfire-min...

So yes, it likely wasn’t dedomed.

Too bad it’s got a mere 5 whackopoints. But(!) the beam is nice with it’s huge spill and the focussed LED, isn’t it?

Oh yeah I like it don’t get me wrong. I doooo REALLY like that Mini spill!!!!! Outfookingstanding.

Wear it now with a leather strap ‘round my neck. So handy. Sheeiiiit, just got the Mini2 couple days ago butt I was hoping to de-dome it too. LOL

Ok on second thot I’ll give it a 6.0 TCR. Maybe 6.5 if I pretend I de-domed it. LOL Thumbs Up Beer

PS. Gotta find a way to warm it up some. Any ideas? Grad


No, unfortunately the PCB is quite special. Difficult to replace. I asked the manufacturer for warm hcri LEDs (they exist according to their product page) but they have not answered.

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

nottawhackjob
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 4 min ago
Joined: 01/07/2013 - 14:13
Posts: 1335

Unheard wrote:
nottawhackjob wrote:
Unheard wrote:
FWIW, the Mini2’s LED is domeless.

https://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/threads/kurzvorstellung-trustfire-min...

So yes, it likely wasn’t dedomed.

Too bad it’s got a mere 5 whackopoints. But(!) the beam is nice with it’s huge spill and the focussed LED, isn’t it?

Oh yeah I like it don’t get me wrong. I doooo REALLY like that Mini spill!!!!! Outfookingstanding.

Wear it now with a leather strap ‘round my neck. So handy. Sheeiiiit, just got the Mini2 couple days ago butt I was hoping to de-dome it too. LOL

Ok on second thot I’ll give it a 6.0 TCR. Maybe 6.5 if I pretend I de-domed it. LOL Thumbs Up Beer

PS. Gotta find a way to warm it up some. Any ideas? Grad


No, unfortunately the PCB is quite special. Difficult to replace. I asked the manufacturer for warm hcri LEDs (they exist according to their product page) but he didn’t answered.

Sheeiiiit. I was thinking about buying a bunch for X’mas gifts too. Well maybe they’re reading this. I really like the rest of it.

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

nottawhackjob
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 4 min ago
Joined: 01/07/2013 - 14:13
Posts: 1335

Hay btw shouldn’t U2 be in bed with an insignificant other?

Watt is it, 2:00am in Hellsinky and Mewnitch? LOL Shocked

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

Inexorabill
Inexorabill's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 21 hours ago
Joined: 02/12/2021 - 19:56
Posts: 22
Location: USA

I mean CRI is kind of a crappy standard, it compares colors to a black body radiator. So I can have a 99.9999172818247929 CRI light, but if it is 2000K then everything is an ugly yellow and greens and blues look like crap.

Illuminant E master race.

nottawhackjob
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 4 min ago
Joined: 01/07/2013 - 14:13
Posts: 1335
Inexorabill wrote:
I mean CRI is kind of a crappy standard, it compares colors to a black body radiator. So I can have a 99.9999172818247929 CRI light, but if it is 2000K then everything is an ugly yellow and greens and blues look like crap.

Well that’s why I use the Picasso as my TCR reference standard. It’s got lots of colors. Shocked

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

MoreLumens
MoreLumens's picture
Offline
Last seen: 43 min 51 sec ago
Joined: 10/25/2019 - 07:08
Posts: 1628
Location: Finland

nottawhackjob wrote:
Hay btw shouldn’t U2 be in bed with an insignificant other?

Watt is it, 2:00am in Hellsinky and Mewnitch? LOL Shocked

Well it depends. It’s 12.33 am, but it ain’t even dark. Could walk outside without flashlight and sun comes up at 3.44 am. So depends, am I really early or late?

nottawhackjob
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 4 min ago
Joined: 01/07/2013 - 14:13
Posts: 1335

MoreLumens wrote:
nottawhackjob wrote:
Hay btw shouldn’t U2 be in bed with an insignificant other?

Watt is it, 2:00am in Hellsinky and Mewnitch? LOL Shocked

Well it depends. It’s 12.33 am, but it ain’t even dark. Could walk outside without flashlight and sun comes up at 3.44 am. So depends, am I really early or late?

No wonder U2’s are nutz. If the sun came up in So.Calif @ 3:00am we’d have mass suicides, riots,
and jammed up freeways. Oh, wait. Shocked

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

Unheard
Unheard's picture
Offline
Last seen: 48 min 7 sec ago
Joined: 01/16/2019 - 11:38
Posts: 2204
Location: Germany

nottawhackjob wrote:
Hay btw shouldn’t U2 be in bed with an insignificant other?

Watt is it, 2:00am in Hellsinky and Mewnitch? LOL Shocked


No, it’s currently 2356 in Germany. Great Britain should be one hour behind.

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

Unheard
Unheard's picture
Offline
Last seen: 48 min 7 sec ago
Joined: 01/16/2019 - 11:38
Posts: 2204
Location: Germany

https://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/threads/kurzvorstellung-trustfire-l1-...

The L1 has the same optics but a standard MCPCB. A domeless SST-20 fits.

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

iamlucky13
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 9 min ago
Joined: 06/22/2018 - 09:18
Posts: 1013
Location: USA
Inexorabill wrote:
I mean CRI is kind of a crappy standard, it compares colors to a black body radiator. So I can have a 99.9999172818247929 CRI light, but if it is 2000K then everything is an ugly yellow and greens and blues look like crap.

That doesn’t make it a crappy standard. Light spectra are more complex than a single factor can describe. You need to select for multiple factors to define the light desired for a given situation. By convention, we call out not only CRI, but also chromaticity in terms of both color temperature and deviation from the black body locus in terms of DUV.

nottawhackjob
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 4 min ago
Joined: 01/07/2013 - 14:13
Posts: 1335
iamlucky13 wrote:
Inexorabill wrote:
I mean CRI is kind of a crappy standard, it compares colors to a black body radiator. So I can have a 99.9999172818247929 CRI light, but if it is 2000K then everything is an ugly yellow and greens and blues look like crap.

That doesn’t make it a crappy standard. Light spectra are more complex than a single factor can describe. You need to select for multiple factors to define the light desired for a given situation. By convention, we call out not only CRI, but also chromaticity in terms of both color temperature and deviation from the black body locus in terms of DUV.

See watt I mean? Over-tedious pedantry. Grad Shocked

Btw one doesn’t “need” to do sheeiiitttt. Not harpin’ ya personally. Just that this techno- blab stuff has been gettin’ carried away regarding CRI vs the real world of uses vs personal tint tastes. All where the ultimate aim from a personal perspective is, …….

“Do I see the three primary colors and its range of complimentaries in a fashion well enuff that I am pleased with watt I’m illuminating back to my very unique eyes”. LOL

How ya “gauge” that from a human uniqueness perspective shouldn’t “need” to be made over-complex.

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

darosk
darosk's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 16 min ago
Joined: 10/06/2019 - 22:03
Posts: 216
Location: Sabah, Malaysia
nottawhackjob wrote:
iamlucky13 wrote:
Inexorabill wrote:
I mean CRI is kind of a crappy standard, it compares colors to a black body radiator. So I can have a 99.9999172818247929 CRI light, but if it is 2000K then everything is an ugly yellow and greens and blues look like crap.

That doesn’t make it a crappy standard. Light spectra are more complex than a single factor can describe. You need to select for multiple factors to define the light desired for a given situation. By convention, we call out not only CRI, but also chromaticity in terms of both color temperature and deviation from the black body locus in terms of DUV.

See watt I mean? Over-tedious pedantry. . Grad Shocked

>Watt

Excellent

My Lights (Updated: June 20, 2021)

BurningPlayd0h
BurningPlayd0h's picture
Offline
Last seen: 22 hours 23 min ago
Joined: 06/22/2018 - 02:16
Posts: 1784
Location: MN

You’re discounting how relative human vision is. Shining the same light, at the same object(s) can look completely different for me based on time of day/ambient lighting. TM-30 was created to address the many serious downsides of the older “CRI” rating:

Long video, but if anyone’s bored it’s an amazing source of info.

nottawhackjob
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 4 min ago
Joined: 01/07/2013 - 14:13
Posts: 1335

Geez all this has “forced” me to add TCR’s definition to my signature. I’m doomed. LOL Shocked

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

BurningPlayd0h
BurningPlayd0h's picture
Offline
Last seen: 22 hours 23 min ago
Joined: 06/22/2018 - 02:16
Posts: 1784
Location: MN
nottawhackjob wrote:
Geez all this has “forced” me to add TCR’s definition to my signature. I’m doomed. LOL Shocked

What I’m trying to express is that based on time of day, actual lux level of that sunlight vs the flashlight, etc. you will never be able to judge that based on your own vision alone. That’s why we have objective measurements of color rendition, CCT, etc.

Set a fixed color balance on your camera, take pics at 6am, 12pm, 5pm and 8pm and compare them. The very same light has looked angry blue in some situations, neutral temp but green in others, and VERY warm and rosy at dusk on a partly cloudy day to me.

The way we perceive color temp is VERY dependent on lux, this is explained in the Kruithof Curve.

nottawhackjob
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 4 min ago
Joined: 01/07/2013 - 14:13
Posts: 1335

Ok.

However I was also going to add another facet to TCR. Our eyes being uniquely different can fine-tune TCR through numbers. By that I mean for instance if my wife views the same Picasso in sunlight and then later illuminates it with the given flash do her and me come up with a pretty close TCR? Then I add my kids. Then my neighbor.

If all of us get a consensus that the particular flash’s TCR is between 8.2 and 9.3 then average them for a TCR of let’s say 8.7 then I could comfortably say that that’s a reasonably accurate TCR.

So if someone should ask me, “Yeah Notta, you’re touting this flash butt watt’s the TCR?”

I could confidently say the TCR for me is 8.5. Consensus average with others was 8.7. That should give someone else a reasonably accurate idea of how the flash performed within those parameters.

If ya add tint to all that, well IMO because that tends to be a very personal choice, then consequently TCR purposely avoids addressing it.

PS. Nothing of course stops you from comparing the LED manufacturer’s CRI for that particular bin, etc., to TCR. I would probably just tell you to be honest that I considered the TCR for me to be 8.5 and leave it at that. Butt I also personally felt that the tint was a bit over-yellowed for my tastes and consequently you might wanna keep that in mind, or not. Ya might prefer yellow tints who knows.

I think most here becuz of their experience know when a flash TCR is ridiculous. A red apple in typical sunlight when flashed looks like a rotten decomposing eggplant.

TCR? “1.0 Mr. Blutarsky.” LOL

PSS. I just used decimal points butt let’s get real. Who’s gonna accurately differentiate between a .5 and .7? I could go for .5 increments though to have some flex. Could some flash get a 10? Possible I guess.

PSSS. Ya know I always liked giving 99.99% sure when someone really tries to pin me down on a crucial answer. Then if I’m somehow completely off the carrot truck I can always go back, “Yeah butt I did say only 99.99% sure.” LOL Shocked Thumbs Up Beer

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

iamlucky13
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 9 min ago
Joined: 06/22/2018 - 09:18
Posts: 1013
Location: USA
nottawhackjob wrote:
iamlucky13 wrote:
Inexorabill wrote:
I mean CRI is kind of a crappy standard, it compares colors to a black body radiator. So I can have a 99.9999172818247929 CRI light, but if it is 2000K then everything is an ugly yellow and greens and blues look like crap.

That doesn’t make it a crappy standard. Light spectra are more complex than a single factor can describe. You need to select for multiple factors to define the light desired for a given situation. By convention, we call out not only CRI, but also chromaticity in terms of both color temperature and deviation from the black body locus in terms of DUV.

See watt I mean? Over-tedious pedantry. Grad Shocked

Btw one doesn’t “need” to do sheeiiitttt. Not harpin’ ya personally. Just that this techno- blab stuff has been gettin’ carried away regarding CRI vs the real world of uses vs personal tint tastes. All where the ultimate aim from a personal perspective is, …….

“Do I see the three primary colors and its range of complimentaries in a fashion well enuff that I am pleased with watt I’m illuminating back to my very unique eyes”. LOL

How ya “gauge” that from a human uniqueness perspective shouldn’t “need” to be made over-complex.

Don’t get me wrong. I understand and appreciate your point, but if you want to know what you’re getting before you have it in hand to test it according to the nottawhackjob TCR scale, you will be dependent on other metrics, and CRI covers only one of the possible factors.

pinkpanda3310
pinkpanda3310's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 5 hours ago
Joined: 12/28/2013 - 08:45
Posts: 2966
Location: Perth

BurningPlayd0h wrote:
What I’m trying to express is that based on time of day, actual lux level of that sunlight vs the flashlight, etc. you will never be able to judge that based on your own vision alone. That’s why we have objective measurements of color rendition, CCT, etc.

Being the devils advocate here -If our eyes can’t tell the difference why worry about it?

  

pinkpanda3310
pinkpanda3310's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 5 hours ago
Joined: 12/28/2013 - 08:45
Posts: 2966
Location: Perth

Nevermind my last question. iamlucky13 just answered it

  

BurningPlayd0h
BurningPlayd0h's picture
Offline
Last seen: 22 hours 23 min ago
Joined: 06/22/2018 - 02:16
Posts: 1784
Location: MN
pinkpanda3310 wrote:
BurningPlayd0h wrote:
What I’m trying to express is that based on time of day, actual lux level of that sunlight vs the flashlight, etc. you will never be able to judge that based on your own vision alone. That’s why we have objective measurements of color rendition, CCT, etc.
Being the devils advocate here -If our eyes can’t tell the difference why worry about it?

Not saying that our eyes/brain can’t tell the difference, it’s that the subjective experience of it is completely dependent on other variables.

A 3000K light looks terrible compared to sunlight on an overcast or even sunny day at noon, but looks fantastic (and can be objectively accurate) in a gallery.

Any “rating” doesn’t mean much if it changes by walking 10ft into another room IMHO.

pinkpanda3310
pinkpanda3310's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 5 hours ago
Joined: 12/28/2013 - 08:45
Posts: 2966
Location: Perth

I get that we can see differences in the bigger changes (e.g. colour temp) but as you keep pointing out with so many variables that can even change perception of colour temp why bother considering cri? Walking 10ft past another light source is going to render it useless for perfect perception. It just sounds like chasing ghosts to me.

Taking a step back, I do have to remind myself that other people care about it more than I do and if a ‘better’ choice is available people will choose it. The problem for me is ‘Better’ seems to be subject to machines and graphs that tell us the differences since everyone sees something different not to mention everyone has different preferences.

I can understand lucky’s point that if you know your own preferences then the graphs can help narrow the next choice.

  

nottawhackjob
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 4 min ago
Joined: 01/07/2013 - 14:13
Posts: 1335

BurningPlayd0h wrote:
You’re discounting how relative human vision is. Shining the same light, at the same object(s) can look completely different for me based on time of day/ambient lighting. TM-30 was created to address the many serious downsides of the older “CRI” rating:

Long video, but if anyone’s bored it’s an amazing source of info.

Yes I agree. Butt TCR isn’t shooting for that level of scientifically supportable data. The sole “data” it’s providing is one person’s scalable subjective perception of how true an object’s color rendition becomes when illuminated. Watt I’m also in effect saying here is that the more a person ‘knows’ the object’s color(s) the more accurate TCR will tend to be.

All subjective butt loosely scalable. The person on the other end will have to decide whether to trust the TCR rating and likely will depend on the person’s reputation, etc.

CRI in combination with TCR are really two tools enhancing one another.

I didn’t mean that it should replace CRI even partially in the decision process. Someone for instance could trust your quick answer TCR because they know your reputation for being savvy especially when it comes to this area of expertise. Simple answer for simple answer-requesting folks as it were.

I look at a particular LED’s bin, efficiency, Vf, etc., and most importantly watt others are trend- saying about its real-world performance. If they say it makes colors accurately “pop” but shows a slightly green cast on lighter whitish backgrounds I’d probably pass.

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

BurningPlayd0h
BurningPlayd0h's picture
Offline
Last seen: 22 hours 23 min ago
Joined: 06/22/2018 - 02:16
Posts: 1784
Location: MN

pinkpanda3310 wrote:
I get that we can see differences in the bigger changes (e.g. colour temp) but as you keep pointing out with so many variables that can even change perception of colour temp why bother considering cct? Walking 10ft past another light source is going to render it useless for perfect perception. It just sounds like chasing ghosts to me.

Taking a step back, I do have to remind myself that other people care about it more than I do and if a ‘better’ choice is available people will choose it. The problem for me is ‘Better’ seems to be subject to machines and graphs that tell us the differences since everyone sees something different not to mention everyone has different preferences.

I can understand lucky’s point that if you know your own preferences then the graphs can help narrow the next choice.

The logic of that seems backwards to me. You pick color temp and tint based on preference, but how well that renders colors is shown with the raw numbers rather what looks “good”. OP seems to be discounting the actual data completely, especially since I’m not aware of a single emitter where dedoming/slicing improves the Ra by a significant amount. If anything it’s probably just a point in the column for lower duv looking “better” to the vast majority of people.

I could be leaning too far into the semantic, but “True Color Rendering” couldn’t be more of misnomer given that for example tint mixes lower color accuracy but look “better” to many people.

Just imagine judging lumen output on perceived brightness only. I wasn’t around for it but I think there have been some heated discussions of people having their own idea of what “a lumen” constitutes here on BLFand/ or the other forum.

With reviewers like Maukka showing angular tint shit and changes in duv/temp with drive current… I don’t think there’s much that the data misses TBH.

nottawhackjob][quote=BurningPlayd0h wrote:
If they say it makes colors accurately “pop” but shows a slightly green cast on lighter whitish backgrounds I’d probably pass.

That’s just an opinion on how likeable the tint is. Sunlight itself has a positive duv which is why there has been discussion of moving away from the BBL on ANSI charts.

A metric means nothing without a standard, and since there are so many variables for what someone “knows” about how colors should be rendered ist’s effectively meaningless. What someone thinks of as “sunlight” will be completely different for me in the winter vs a person living on the equator for example.

I don’t have any issue with someone saying “This light’s beam/tint is good/okay/terrible.” but assigning some arbitrary number value to that makes no sense. Making colors “pop” is what we have Rg for, and green tint on white walls in duv.

nottawhackjob
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 4 min ago
Joined: 01/07/2013 - 14:13
Posts: 1335

BurningPlayd0h wrote:
pinkpanda3310 wrote:
I get that we can see differences in the bigger changes (e.g. colour temp) but as you keep pointing out with so many variables that can even change perception of colour temp why bother considering cct? Walking 10ft past another light source is going to render it useless for perfect perception. It just sounds like chasing ghosts to me.

Taking a step back, I do have to remind myself that other people care about it more than I do and if a ‘better’ choice is available people will choose it. The problem for me is ‘Better’ seems to be subject to machines and graphs that tell us the differences since everyone sees something different not to mention everyone has different preferences.

I can understand lucky’s point that if you know your own preferences then the graphs can help narrow the next choice.

The logic of that seems backwards to me. You pick color temp and tint based on preference, but how well that renders colors is shown with the raw numbers rather what looks “good”. OP seems to be discounting the actual data completely, especially since I’m not aware of a single emitter where dedoming/slicing improves the Ra by a significant amount. If anything it’s probably just a point in the column for lower duv looking “better” to the vast majority of people.

I could be leaning too far into the semantic, but “True Color Rendering” couldn’t be more of misnomer given that for example tint mixes lower color accuracy but look “better” to many people.

Just imagine judging lumen output on perceived brightness only. I wasn’t around for it but I think there have been some heated discussions of people having their own idea of what “a lumen” constitutes here on BLFand/ or the other forum.

I think yer over-analyzing.

Nothing can replace watt your brain perceives. I don’t care how many data points and graphs ya have. However a trending subjective observational consensus can also be just as ‘accurate’ as the raw scientific data shows.

Pretty much everyone agrees CRI as an initial starting point is the best place to start – for some. And all I’m saying is I’ve kinda gotten tired of solely relying on it so why not try analyzing watt I see for myself because I know a particular object so well then why not TCR rate it?

PS. I can tell ya haven’t de-domed much. I can emphatically tell ya TCR can change substantially doing so. LOL

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

Pages