If a lithium ion battery exploded in a flashlight would it blow the light apart?

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arow55
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Funtastic wrote:
It’s extremely unlikely IF

- You care for your batteries and know all the safety precautions
- Don’t use budget, cheap, old batteries
- Don’t be an idiot


That last requirement is why I stick to eneloop.
raccoon city
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Bort wrote:

and get some 21700s as well i plan to go with name brand again.

I did research on 21700s, and I like these the most:

https://liionwholesale.com/collections/batteries/products/molicel-npe-inr-21700-p42a-45a-4200mah-flat-top-21700-battery-authorized-distributor

They're very nice, and fairly cheap, but the wrappers on the cells break easily so you have to be careful not to damage the wrappers.

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Funtastic wrote:
The brands I sell that have CE, ROHS certs are (I don’t sell anything else yet)

Sofirn

Not the D25S, D25L, S11C since they aren’t made by Sofirn

Wurkkos (Sofirn build them)
Convoy

Guess what, I just found out Astrolux/Mateminco refuse to carry out any testing anymore. I’m ditching the brand. They print CE, ROHS on the flashlights, but have no such testing done at all. I would strongly suggest not buying them IF your country requires these certs for your insurance.


Good to know
How can you tell if a flashlight is tested and they are not just claiming its certified?

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

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Bort
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raccoon city wrote:

Bort wrote:

and get some 21700s as well i plan to go with name brand again.


I did research on 21700s, and I like these the most:


https://liionwholesale.com/collections/batteries/products/molicel-npe-inr-21700-p42a-45a-4200mah-flat-top-21700-battery-authorized-distributor


They’re very nice, and fairly cheap, but the wrappers on the cells break easily so you have to be careful not to damage the wrappers.


I’m all about capacity so i would want some 5000mAh cells.

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

 

 

Funtastic
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Bort wrote:
How can you tell if a flashlight is tested and they are not just claiming its certified?

You have to ask them for the CE certs or whatever it is you need.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

Bort
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Funtastic wrote:
Bort wrote:
How can you tell if a flashlight is tested and they are not just claiming its certified?

You have to ask them for the CE certs or whatever it is you need.


I’ve never seen a certification document for a flashlight. I sold some 8 year old Convoys, i wonder if they had been tested/certified.
How did you figure out that Astrolux/Mateminco refuse to test?

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

 

 

Funtastic
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Bort wrote:
How did you figure out that Astrolux/Mateminco refuse to test?

I was a dealer for them and asked for the certs of their new models. Ben, who handles all customer service, said they no longer carry out any testing.

This is slightly concerning that they simply don’t care anymore to make sure their products are safe. Banggood is really their only buyer for the Astrolux brand, so there’s no need in their eyes. If they had a large number of dealers worldwide it would be different.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

Funtastic
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Every single Convoy model has the CE testing done. They do things properly Smile

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

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Bort wrote:

I'm all about capacity so i would want some 5000mAh cells.

Make sure your light doesn't require high drain cells then.  :-)

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Funtastic wrote:
Bort wrote:
How did you figure out that Astrolux/Mateminco refuse to test?

I was a dealer for them and asked for the certs of their new models. Ben, who handles all customer service, said they no longer carry out any testing.

This is slightly concerning that they simply don’t care anymore to make sure their products are safe. Banggood is really their only buyer for the Astrolux brand, so there’s no need in their eyes. If they had a large number of dealers worldwide it would be different.


Impressive honesty Big Smile
Ridiculous business decision Facepalm
Funtastic wrote:
Every single Convoy model has the CE testing done. They do things properly Smile

Nice! I am curious what is tested, are there any publicly available certificates?
raccoon city wrote:

Bort wrote:

I’m all about capacity so i would want some 5000mAh cells.


Make sure your light doesn’t require high drain cells then.  alt=)" />


This cell puts out 9.8A.
https://liionwholesale.com/collections/batteries/products/samsung-50e-21...
So 3.6V x 9.8A means 35W. This is good enough for the lights that i’m looking at. As the Convoy M21B i am looking at puts put 1500 lumen i don’t expect any problems. If it takes over 35W to do that then there is a bigger problem at hand.

That said you have inspired me to look up its wattage vs output graph Smile

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

 

 

Funtastic
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Bort wrote:
So 3.6V x 9.8A means 35W. This is good enough for the lights that i’m looking at. As the Convoy M21B i am looking at puts put 1500 lumen i don’t expect any problems. If it takes over 35W to do that then there is a bigger problem at hand.

That’s not how you choose a battery though. You need to understand that most drivers rely on a battery’s voltage for outputting the highest possible lumens. When you apply 9.8A on the Samsung 50E the voltage will sag on load thus reducing the lumens.

In my opinion, if a torch requires up to 10A I’ll recommend a 15A+ battery. For my Osram 5A builds I’ll bundle a 10A battery, for 10A I’ll bundle a 20A etc. You’ll get longer runtime off a battery if it’s not pushed to its max rating

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

Bort
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Bort wrote:
raccoon city wrote:

Bort wrote:

I’m all about capacity so i would want some 5000mAh cells.


Make sure your light doesn’t require high drain cells then.  alt=)" />


This cell puts out 9.8A.
https://liionwholesale.com/collections/batteries/products/samsung-50e-21...
So 3.6V x 9.8A means 35W. This is good enough for the lights that i’m looking at. As the Convoy M21B i am looking at puts put 1500 lumen i don’t expect any problems. If it takes over 35W to do that then there is a bigger problem at hand.

That said you have inspired me to look up its wattage vs output graph Smile


It seems its run at 6A and is likely a linear driver as its likely a 3V chip
So no problems Smile
https://www.mouser.ca/new/luminus-devices/luminus-sst-40-w-white-leds/

Since i don’t know much about Luminous LED chips and didn’t think look at the one i was considering i appreciate the unintentional nudge Smile

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

 

 

Funtastic
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A battery’s capacity rating is measured at 0.2C (0.2 X capacity) discharge current. You’ll get less capacity the higher amp load you run the battery at

A Molicel P42A and Samsung 40T may achieve longer runtime than a 50E

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

Bort
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Funtastic wrote:
Bort wrote:
So 3.6V x 9.8A means 35W. This is good enough for the lights that i’m looking at. As the Convoy M21B i am looking at puts put 1500 lumen i don’t expect any problems. If it takes over 35W to do that then there is a bigger problem at hand.

That’s not how you choose a battery though. You need to understand that most drivers rely on a battery’s voltage for outputting the highest possible lumens. When you apply 9.8A on the Samsung 50E the voltage will sag on load thus reducing the lumens.

In my opinion, if a torch requires up to 10A I’ll recommend a 15A+ battery. For my Osram 5A builds I’ll bundle a 10A battery, for 10A I’ll bundle a 20A etc. You’ll get longer runtime off a battery if it’s not pushed to its max rating


Fair enough, i just replied to RC that it needs 6A out so 9.8A should be reasonable.

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

 

 

Funtastic
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Nevermind, I missed that it’s only for the Convoy M21B

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

Bort
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Funtastic wrote:
A battery’s capacity rating is measured at 0.2C (0.2 X capacity) discharge current. You’ll get less capacity the higher amp load you run the battery at

A Molicel P42A and Samsung 40T may achieve longer runtime than a 50E


Interesting.
I hope you don’t mind if i ask you about that in the future if i do end up buying that light.

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

 

 

Bort
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Funtastic wrote:
Nevermind, I missed that it’s only for the Convoy M21B

Which lights do you recommend those cells for?

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

 

 

Funtastic
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Bort wrote:
Funtastic wrote:
A battery’s capacity rating is measured at 0.2C (0.2 X capacity) discharge current. You’ll get less capacity the higher amp load you run the battery at

A Molicel P42A and Samsung 40T may achieve longer runtime than a 50E


Interesting.
I hope you don’t mind if i ask you about that in the future if i do end up buying that light.

I meant if the 50E is driven hard, but that doesn’t really happen in a flashlight I think, it only delivers what it’s capable of. Someone else might know a bit more about that.

Looks like the 50E would still provide higher capacity anyway, so the above does apply in this case.

At 10A the 50E still gets 4,750mAh and the Molicel 3,900mAh ish. At 20A+ is where you’d see the Molicel shine.

Best place to compare models cells is here

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with maukka lights

New Zealand store – https://www.piercingthedarkness.co.nz (NZ customers only)

YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIUWi2vYp4CWrRkOJM70t_w/videos (Demos for my customers, and reviews)

Bort
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Funtastic wrote:
Bort wrote:
Funtastic wrote:
A battery’s capacity rating is measured at 0.2C (0.2 X capacity) discharge current. You’ll get less capacity the higher amp load you run the battery at

A Molicel P42A and Samsung 40T may achieve longer runtime than a 50E


Interesting.
I hope you don’t mind if i ask you about that in the future if i do end up buying that light.

I meant if the 50E is driven hard, but that doesn’t really happen in a flashlight I think, it only delivers what it’s capable of. Someone else might know a bit more about that.

Looks like the 50E would still provide higher capacity anyway, so the above does apply in this case.

At 10A the 50E still gets 4,750mAh and the Molicel 3,900mAh ish. At 20A+ is where you’d see the Molicel shine.

Best place to compare models cells is here


Which Chinese battery brands do you consider high quality?

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

 

 

Oli
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A pressure buildup inside of a flashlight is entirely different than a battery explosion. Unless I’m missing something I don’t think we have evidence of batteries exploding in flashlights. Yes there is evidence of flashlights “exploding” from internal pressure. Mostly out of the ends not the barrel itself. Always point your flashlight down range. Just say no to 123s.

You can't compare the big flashlight in the sky to the little flashlight in your hand.

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Bort… try these Tesla 21700’s from Tech-Direct

chops728 posted about these a while back. I got several & they are great cells.

$11.99 for 3 of them.
No tax & FREE shipping.

You will not be sorry. ✅

You are in the USA aren’t you??

Bort
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ShyOne wrote:
Bort… try these Tesla 21700’s from Tech-Direct

chops728 posted about these a while back. I got several & they are great cells.

$11.99 for 3 of them.
No tax & FREE shipping.

You will not be sorry. ✅

You are in the USA aren’t you??


The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

 

 

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Canada… that “might” sink the deal Bort. Sad

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