Oh I’m well aware of that, most of these are probably just cheap and common D2 steel with varying levels of heat treatment, I’ve been lucky enough before to get chinese D2 blades with very decent edge retention and actually getting them sharpened to near mirror finish. This one was surprisingly sharp out of the box with no visible defects on the edge. I will never carry this knife and pass it as genuine, or grab it for a more serious situation, I have plenty other knives for that.
There have been some legitimate instances, where some boutique steel in Chinese knives has been verified by third parties and S35V and Kiser knives comes to mind, but I agree with your point.
Don’t trust the Chinese.
Chris
A fake ZT0230 on the aliexpress YSTART store was going with the claim that the marked CPM-20CV was actually 440C.
https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005001460111457.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.15.3a5220168a3Oht
My point is definitely not “don’t trust the Chinese”. There are lots of good knife companies in China such as Bestech and Petrified Fish. Kizer does a really nice job. WE and their sub-brands, Civivi and Sencut, can definitely be trusted. There is no question about their steel stamps.
The issue here is an obviously fake steel stamp on a blatant counterfeit. There is just no way that you are going to get 20CV, with any kind of heat treatment, on a $50 knife. The fact that it is a counterfeit, posing as something that it isn’t, only reinforces the point. Of the steels that could be used in a $50 knife, why would a counterfeiter swing high with 9Cr18Mov, D2, or a Sandvik steel? The job of selling a counterfeit is just as well accomplished by 8Cr13 or a lower member of that series. Those steels are much cheaper and can be sharpened to a very fine edge. They just won’t hold it like a better steel.
What is “fake steel stamps”? It’s either legit X, Y or Z, or it’s not?
Nobody who knows anything about quality knives, refers to things as “fake steel stamps?”
I don’t really give two shits about what your point is, frankly.
The Chinese rip off shit and lie about all manner of things and you’re giving them only a slight glance, tells me you’re probably Chinese?
I don’t even know where to begin, with your comments, so let me try.
“There are lots of good knife companies in China such as Bestech and Petrified Fish. Kizer does a really nice job.”
What is your basis for comparison, for making the above statement?
What other quality knives do you own and use, where you can make this statement?
In my Kiser example, it was only shown that they had taken delivery of legitimate, S35V, not that they even knew how to heat treat it properly.
As far as the other brands you mention, what are you comparing them to and for what tasks?
A lot of the cheap asses here love to rave on their ChiCom $30 knives as if they were the “God’s gift to humanity,” but ask them what they do with them and it’s the same old, same thing as opening a few other boxes from Amazon and a few junk mail letters that they get on a daily basis.
Chris
At Blade show this year I picked up these two, UTX-70 and a UTX-85. Loved the serrations but didn’t care for the black coating on the 85 too much once I started to carry it. It marked way too easily so I traded for the a different 85 and also picked up a Mini Freek.
Satin/stonewashed blades are really much better if you intend to actually use your knife. Kinda want to have someone do serrations on the new 85 but cheapest I’ve found is $125! That’s more than half of what I paid for it lol.
There’s no arguing with your point, I don’t think anyone on their right mind knowingly buying a fake knife would assume for a second that they’re being given real 20CV steel, the point of manufacturing a fake knife is to make it LOOK and FEEL as close as possible as the real thing, not necessarily to perform as such. And to make it look real they must include the correct laser etching and such. I bought mine just because I was curious if I was going to get a decent titanium framelock for $50 and I did, but would never trust this one with carry or real use.
5 years ago you’d be entirely correct but as things are right now I will have to disagree with you here. From some time ago the chinese realized that if they do clones (or homages whatever you wanna call it) and make it good, they would have a product that will continue to steadily sell for a long time at a profitable price. This generates a lot more $$ than doing a single run of low quality counterfeit crap. Why? because now there is a culture of comparing which fake is the fakest and closest to the real stuff.
One example are Pagani watches which are nothing more than straight copies of rolex and omega watches just with a different name. You’d assume they would make these watches with crappy movements and decorative subdials but no, they are often well reviewed and said to be best in the price range. Some of them even use real seiko movements which are tuned to be more accurate than genuine seiko watches with the same movement.
Go over at any replica subreddit and there are thousands of people discussing which sneaker or street wear clothing has the best quality. Often these items are made to the same level of quality than the real one and people can’t tell the difference between the two unless inspecting very closely.
The chinese are excellent at mass producing stuff and they can do it as high of a quality as you’re willing to pay for. What they are not good at is coming up with original or innovative desings, so they realized if they just skipped the design, R&D and marketing side of things they could find their way into the market.
D2 steel is just hardeded tool steel, it’s very cheap to manufacture and to machine, with the only gripe that the quality is determined by the heat treatment process. I’m not advising people to go out there and buy fakes knives, but if they do, I hope they at least don’t try to pass it as genuine.
Got the Kizer Junges a few days ago. Very smooth operating and scary sharp right out of the box. It’s been a while since I ordered a new blade. Really liked the style of this one. I like a flipper with a thumb stud.
[quote=ChrisGarrett]
I get that this is the internet and you don’t know who I am but there is no need to be rude. To answer your questions:
I’ve been into knives since the early 1990s. I’ve owned, used, and carried knives from Buck, Case, Spyderco, Kershaw, CRKT, Gerber, Schrade, Harnds, Hogue, TRM, Kizer, Bestech, WE and their sub-brands, and many more. I have also disassembled and maintained a lot of knives over the years. More recently, I’ve been active in getting knives tested and sharing results on which companies are using the steels they say, have good heat treatments, etc.
I’m not Chinese. I’m a white guy from America. I was also active in the America First movement back before some of the members here might have been born. However, I value quality knives whether they are made in China, Japan, Sweden, or wherever else. I also understand that people or companies are not synonymous with their governments. There are good Chinese people and good Chinese companies. To think otherwise is straight-up racist.
Of course, I was generalizing. There are differences and a big part of it is cost and access for whoever is manufacturing it. There are plenty of cases of real G-10 and caged bearings being used in such knives. Some of them have impressive actions too. I’ve never handled a counterfeit in titanium but it seems to happen. The point is that something usually gives up for profit besides the brand name mark-up, licensing, R&D, cost of manufacturing in a particular country, etc. It’s not like clothing or textiles where the brand name alone can mean the bulk of the profit.
Blade steel and heat treatment are the usual suspects in counterfeits. Sure, they might pay the cost difference from 3Cr13 to 8Cr13Mov. It happens regularly. In fact, a lot of fake D2 stamps have tested as 8Cr13Mov. While D2 does show up in legitimate $20-something knives, sometimes with a decent heat treatment relative to Chinese D2, it does seem to carry a higher cost of manufacturing than 8Cr13Mov. There may be cases where it makes sense for a counterfeiter to use it but generally, I don’t expect it. I certainly wouldn’t expect anything better than Chinese D2 in a clone or counterfeit bearing a fake stamp.
Can someone please tell me if these two knives are FAKE copies ?
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https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08P1KWVVD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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The Spyderco Tenacious appears legitimate because there’s a low likelihood of copies of their lower end budget models, and the price seems about right.
The CJRB isn’t a copy per se, unless the concern is over its resemblance to the ZT 0460 model? If it was branded as a ZT at that price, then it would be classified as a clone. In this case it’s an “homage.” 
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Thank You “scalpel_ninja” for verifying this for me. I just ordered both yesterday and after reading the previous posts about copies, it was concerning I had made a mistake and needed to cancel the orders. Your input is Greatly appreciated. 
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I have always had edc knives, but rarely buy new ones. Been using a Jeep folding knife for the last 10 yrs, way too long.
Purchased a Kershaw 3.0 blade last yr, but its too short and tight flip, easily dropped.
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Flashlight modding is slowing down for me because I’m modded up on throwers. Looking more at knives now. :sunglasses:
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Asher Nomad . Xevious had shone one and really liked it . I agree .
CJRB Gobi (J1906B) AR-RPM9 Steel Balde. We will see how well the new powder ss blade does soon.
Probably will make a better clip for it.
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Here is my most used edc for 10yrs, retiring soon.
SOG has made some really great knives outside of their usual mass production lines. I still have a San Mai Vulcan Tanto that is just gorgeous, very smooth action, wonderful blade… and it has kept me from buying so many knives in the 3.5 ~ 4.0” range. That Kiku is such a great looking knife. I love that rough age-prone micarta. I just wish it didn’t have that “spiked” flipper tab. I can see that getting snagged on stuff.
If you like the design, I recommend checking out the Djinn by Damned Designs. Front flipper that won’t snag on anything. Action is excellent.
Thanks! Interesting design. I see it’s an Indiegogo funded knife. Bummer to see the 50% off deal is over. :weary: I do see they’ve got a website with the Djinn available for $40, but not in that color scheme…
There are other color options too. I owned a black titanium handled one with S35VN steel. I kinda regret selling it…
today, a letter opener.
yes, we still get letters.
this is a stock image which
reflects the size and style:
