ANDURIL used in higher end lights

Anduril 1 was very much created for a niche enthusiast community… mainly for me, because it did what I wanted, but I also added things other people requested.

Anduril 2 is modified to make it more friendly for a general audience. The fancy stuff is still available, but it’s all turned off by default and can’t really be turned on by accident.

The core interface is the same as I’ve seen in several other places, including a light switch at the nearby home improvement store — Tap for on/off, hold to change brightness. Everything beyond that is just optional extras.

Wellp, there are a few reasons, and I don’t want everyone to dogpile on me for saying so. :slight_smile:

First, people who buy high-end lights aren’t paying for candle- or party- or lightning mode. They want a high quality reliable light, that’s easy to use even if limited. Simple trumps complex. If you’re a cop buying a Suefire or a homeowner buying a Nitecore, you want a light that Just Works. You don’t want to grab a light and have to screw around trying to figure out what mode you’re in, or worse, be checking out a noise downstairs and end up in some unknown mode. If you get stuck in manual memory or thermal config or who knows what, because you didn’t tap out the proper Morse code to turn on the light, it’s useless.

People don’t want ¼ drills; they want ¼ holes. Hence, they want a light that’s predictable in a pinch or emergency situation.

One of my fave lights, the Acebeam EC50, has as simple and useful a UI as you’ll get. Click on/off. Press’n’hold for moonlight. 2click for turbo, press’n’hold from on to bump through the modes. Done. Not even a single stoopit blinky to be found. Memorise those 3 ops, and you mastered it.

My Anekin UC20 in PC-green is a 1-mode light, on/off only. My UC20 in white with 12 modegroups (like bis-whatever) I set similarly to 100-only. That’s all I really need. My old (still got, works beautifully) ’502 was/is a 1-mode light that did 95 of what I needed a light for, and I EDCed that for a long time.

Then again there are different switch configurations. My Nitecore MH20s/-GTs have a 2stage switch like a DSLR. Press’n’hold halfway for moonlight, all the way for turbo, otherwise click on/off. Half-press once on to switch modes. Here’s your diploma, you just graduated MH20 school.

Nitecore TM03? Dual tailswitch, both momentary-on from off, power for last-used mode, mode-select for turbo. Else click full for on/off, modesel to switch modes. Done.

Sofirn TF84, similar to the TM-series with dual-tailswitch.

GTmini, ’micro, Q8, all use narsim, nice ramping with shortcuts to moon/turbo, plus temp config and some other settings. Intuitive right out of the box, if you know basic shortcuts.

One huge complaint I have about andy is the convoluted UI, press vs press’n’hold, press from on vs press from off, etc., how they do sometimes drastically different things. You try to get into blinkies and end up locking yourself into manual memory and have no idea why it doesn’t remember that you kept it on moonlight for a few minutes, turned it off, and are now blinded at midnight because it “remembered” 90% brightness. There’s no distinction between normal/common operations and locking in settings.

Someone (Funtastic?) refuses to sell lights with andy because people who buy his lights just flat-out hate it.

And finally, people who buy high-end lights (think PD, FD, S&R, etc.) are NOT necessarily “enthusiasts”. They want high-reliability, ruggedness, etc., but do not want an overloaded UI with modes they’ll never use and which can very likely get in the way, possibly at the worst possible time.

Too many people conflate the two groups, thinking everyone who buys an Acebeam/Nitecore/Suefire/etc. must must must have andy as the underlying UI, and that’s more often than not, not the case. They want a tool, not a toy.

That said, I have an assload of lights which have andy as the UI, and I like them, but I keep coming back to lights which don’t. Nothing against andy, just that a simple UI is so much easier to use and more predictable.

@Lightbringer
Keep an eye on your autocorrection. It repeatedly replaced “Anduril” with “andy”.

It was always autocorrecting to “andouille”, so I turned off AC altogether.

That about sums it up. We’ll put.

I think if we are all on a spelling B show and we were asked to spell anduril, most would fail, including myself. Andy=much better.

You mean Andúril, right?

It sounds like you might like Anduril 2. It was made for exactly this reason. I heard people complaining about the UI being too convoluted and error-prone, and they were right. Also, manufacturers wanted something more “normal” for regular people to use, so … I fixed it.

By default, it uses a mode called “Simple UI”. In that mode, it’s click on/off, press’n’hold for moonlight, 2click for the brightest mode, press’n’hold from on to change brightness. Remember those basics, and nothing else is needed. There’s no way to accidentally change a config setting, because all configuration is blocked in the simple mode.

The worst the user can do is lock it to prevent accidental activation, which is 4 clicks to enter or exit. Even in that mode though, it still functions as a light… just not as bright.

The extra stuff is still available, of course, but it’s virtually impossible to reach by accident. The user must manually go to the “Advanced UI” mode to get to any of it. Even then, though, the things people tended to trip over have been moved to make them much harder to hit by accident.

Hopefully it’ll become more widely used soon.

Older lights can be updated too, but for some, it requires soldering to access the control chip… so it’s not always an easy process.

If I get time, I hope to make a tutorial for Anduril 2, documenting all the features in stages or levels, from simplest to most complex… so people can start at the beginning, and stop whenever they feel they’ve reached the depth they’re comfortable with. So… level 1 would be click for on/off, hold to change brightness. Level 10 would be how to customize and reflash the code. They can stop at any point, because the only required parts are at level 1.

My take on this: A lot of those flashlight brands (AceBeam, Fenix, Nitecore, Olight) are conservative in designs. They evolve them over time. Anduril UI is relatively new. These makers would prefer to wait for the “great shakeout” to see how this UI fares in longevity and acceptance. If it really takes off, I expect they’d make a few models with it. But frankly, Anduril IS evolving. Slowly. Meanwhile, most of their customer base isn’t whining about no Anduril models. So, the impetus to make the shift isn’t great.

You did a wonderful job on this. Your process was thorough and you included a great sampling of testers. This UI feels intuitive to me. I used to be a NovaTac groupie. And even still, I had trouble remembering the UI menu for things I didn’t set often. Anduril 2 is also terrific, because it has that simple UI mode. I don’t know how anyone can go wrong with using that.

Lastly, if someone forgets what’s in the menu, they shouldn’t go tooling around guessing. Because if you saunter into the temperature limits and change things, you could end up notably altering your flashlight behavior and possibly end up overexerting the battery and/or emitter. I really find the menu system sensible and the quick-cheat sheet is immensely helpful for getting on the right track.

FWIW, I’d seen someone do this with a NovaTac. Create a mini cheat-sheet print-out. Cut it to size and roll up, shoving it inside the light around the battery. Later on, if you forget, just take it out and reference. Easy peasy.

Advanced Menu can be used simply, like so:
From OFF

  1. 1-Click+hold — moonlight; keep holding? ramp up.
  2. 1-Click — last mode used
  3. 2-Click — turbo
  4. 3-Click — battery status
  5. 4-Click — lockout
  6. 2-Click+hold — blinkies

From ON

  1. 1-Click+hold — ramp up
  2. 2-Click+hold — ramp down
  3. 4-Click — lockout
  4. (note — can’t get to blinkies while on)

That’s the real basics of Anduril. I don’t know how you can go wrong from that unless you start guessing other menu options. Make yourself a little print-out of the menu and tuck in the battery tube if you ever need to go beyond the basics.

The blinkies are blocked in Simple UI. There are no strobes or mood lights available unless the user switches to the advanced UI. The actions available from off are: low/med/high, battery check, or lockout.

Or factory reset, if the user holds the button for a few seconds while tightening the tailcap.

Yes, I do realize that — I should have annotated from “Advanced Menu” and will now do so. My point being, you can be in the Advanced menu and really use this UI in a simplistic manner. But yes, the Simple UI mode is terrific for someone like Lightbringer who wants to keep things simple, doesn’t want blinkies or to get caught up in an unexpected menu.

I always assumed that was your humorous take on a nickname. :wink:

Users will have their reasons for wanting, or not wanting Andúril, and the same applies for the manufacturers.

Many logical reasons have been cited. In general, the higher end brands cater to “pro” users who want tools, and can afford to employ staff to develop firmware and driver solutions in-house to meet their specific product goals. The budget brands cater to their enthusiast market, with less demanding fundamental needs, but more demands for the bells and whistles that serve to bolster the “value” quotient, modification potential and bragging rights of sorts. A low-cost solution that makes for an easier sales pitch to their most loyal customers, requiring little other than attribution (which some do better than others). Despite the open source nature, there are few attempts to make modifications, and the community can be leaned on to implement those, with some individuals doing it for themselves, which get shared with the community.

Personally, I think there is a still a lot of untapped potential, but for whatever reason, also a lot of reluctance to do so on the part of the manufacturers.

Ultimately, the whys and hows are resolved by the market and sales numbers.

Andy 2 sounds good in simple mode. I wish top of ramp could be set to say 120 and still be able to use turbo. Otherwise you have to set top of ramp to max then ramp down to a sustainable level each time. It’s a constant guessing game.

I just think it’s funny some think that Ace Beam/Fenix/Nitecore are “higher end” lights. :smiley:

I have plenty lights with many different UIs but I keep coming back to the ones with Anduril. Maybe because I’m just used to it or know the UI better than others. Some modes of Anduril I wish were on other lights like the electronic lockout, battery check, moon and low modes on lockout just to name a few. And the ramping, oh lawd the ramping. :heart_eyes:

And the ramping is the best I’ve tried.

Sorry for all the long comments. Here’s the short version:


Why don’t some brands use Anduril?

Mostly because … they don’t want to.

And that’s okay.

I was following that/a thread for a while, and I (very) vaguely recall some discontent between starting out in “simple” vs “muggle” mode. Ie, it would start out, not just dumbed down but also throttled back, to keep The Muggle from hurting himself, with max brightness being limited, etc., “safe enough to hand to the kiddies”.

Simplified, great, but throttled down… nah. No point in buying a 2000lm light if it only goes to 500lm or so.

Someone fairly recently had a video-review of such a light, pretty sure it was in Muggle Mode, that limited max output to a nice “safe” level.

Lost track of recent developments for A2… are those separate and distinct? If so, then sure, Simple Mode might address most of those issues, which’d be great.

And right smack in the middle, ie, 3click, is ramping vs stepped (from on), and blinkies (from off).

So if the light’s on and you want to try strobe (on/turbo/strobe as 1/2/3 clicks for most lights), you don’t get into blinkies, but it will switch to stepped ⇆ ramping mode. Next time you try to ramp up/down… wtf?!?

Most Other Lights with the usual shortcuts will get into blinkies whether from on or off with a 3click. Only now you’re wondering why no blinkies, and why (next time you try bumping the brightness), it switches in steps vs smoothly, or v/v.

You just illustrated my point by the gap (what would be item 2.5 in the “from on” list).

And that’s what drives people crazy, inconsistency vs more orthogonal commands.