Tesla's new 4680 - We're gonna need a bigger flashlight

[Agro]

@Elon Musk

The reason Tesla is doing its own cell production is in order to accelerate the growth. It is not to make less use of our cell suppliers. In fact, I want to be really clear Tesla wants to increase purchases from cell suppliers. And we’ve been very clear with our cell suppliers, whether it be CATL or Panasonic or LG, that we will take as many batteries as they can produce, so — and we urge them to increase their production and we will buy as much as they can send to us.

[Helios_azimuth]

From tesmanian.com, first 4680 unveiled:

CBAK Energy Technology, through its BAK Power division, announced that from 2023 it will also produce 25Ah/1kW peak power density 4680 cylindrical cells on a large scale, initially completing their development and receiving samples by the end of 2021. At the recently held CIBF 2021 exhibition, BAK Power officially unveiled the first domestic 4680 cylindrical battery.

[Photon_Master]

Wow! So like 250 amps???

Looks like it’s time to build my laser rifle

Found a link to the article: CBAK Energy Technology Intends to Begin Development on Tesla-Invented

[Rdubya18]

Out of curiosity, I measured a Q8 tube . Just too small to work . Not by much though .

[manithree]

Dunno if this is the first, but it’s the first I’ve seen:

https://electrek.co/2021/09/01/storedot-tesla-like-4680-battery-cells-charge-10-minutes
No link to order them online, tho

Electrek‘s take

I like to always be careful with these types of announcements and I stay skeptical.

StoreDot looks like a serious company and I am sure that they did produce such a cell prototype, but I don’t know about the claim of charging in 10 minutes.

[Photon_Master]

Sweet! Can’t wait for a 46800 powered million lumen light

[zerodish]

You must realize 21700 and 4680 batteries were designed to work in packs. With a flashlight the entire outer surface can be used as a heat sink. So a flashlight can use a bigger battery than an automobile. I’m going to wait for the 6080 or the 60160 battery.

[manithree]

@zerodish

You must realize 21700 and 4680 batteries were designed to work in packs. With a flashlight the entire outer surface can be used as a heat sink. So a flashlight can use a bigger battery than an automobile. I’m going to wait for the 6080 or the 60160 battery.

Meh. 4680 is already pushing the limits of carry-able flashlight size. Kind of a winter or camping light for me, already. 21700 is my current carry favorite. 4680 is interesting to me because it will allow higher capacity and power in soda can lights. I’m not really interested in anything significantly larger than that (no, I don’t own or plan to own a BLF GT).

[zerodish]

The big news here is the construction not the size. They put multiple electrodes along the sides instead of one on each end. This shortens the path electricity has to flow and lowers the internal resistance. Lower internal resistance means less heat produced charging and discharging. This should work with other chemistries such as NiMh.

[Hoop]

Carry-able is anything you can carry. A 46800 light is definitely able to be carried. Pocket-able? Well that’s a different term entirely. EDC pocket-able, pants pocket-able, is much different from winter jacket pocket-able. Winter jacket pocket-able is more like holster-able, although a holstered light can be very long, like a 3D Maglite. You can’t put a 3D Maglite in your jacket pocket. You can stick it down your pants though. You might even make some new friends.

What is the limit of Carry-able? I’ve held a garbage can lid in front of me and thought “this is reasonable,” but ultimately I chose a different profession.

I have set the upper limit to the lights I build in my imagination, in terms of head diameter, to about 20 inches / 50 centimeters. As for weight, 20LB / 9KG may be pushing the limits of what is comfortable to carry for a moderate duration using a padded shoulder strap. Golf bag shoulder harnesses that strap over both shoulders would enable 30-35LB / 13-16KG to be carried comfortably, as would a backpack setup.

[manithree]

@Hoop

Carry-able is anything you can carry. A 46800 light is definitely able to be carried. Pocket-able? Well that’s a different term entirely. EDC pocket-able, pants pocket-able, is much different from winter jacket pocket-able. Winter jacket pocket-able is more like holster-able, although a holstered light can be very long, like a 3D Maglite. You can’t put a 3D Maglite in your jacket pocket. You can stick it down your pants though. You might even make some new friends.

What is the limit of Carry-able? I’ve held a garbage can lid in front of me and thought “this is reasonable,” but ultimately I chose a different profession.

I have set the upper limit to the lights I build in my imagination, in terms of head diameter, to about 20 inches / 50 centimeters. As for weight, 20LB / 9KG may be pushing the limits of what is comfortable to carry for a moderate duration using a padded shoulder strap. Golf bag shoulder harnesses that strap over both shoulders would enable 30-35LB / 13-16KG to be carried comfortably, as would a backpack setup.

That’s why I said “for me.”

[Lightbringer]

Take your Q8, DC7, SD01, etc., and just bore it out a few mm, and it’ll fit a 46800 just fine. So we’re not talking about holding a steam-iron in your hands or anything…

[elendur]

Was this new cell not also designed to also provide some structural strength to the battery pack?

[sevin7]

New article related to these cells:

Panasonic's higher-capacity Tesla battery could enter production in 2023

Panasonic could start mass producing larger-capacity batteries for Tesla as soon as next year. The 4680 cell is said to boost the range of electric vehicles by over 15 percent. As Nikkei notes, that could boost the range of the Model S from 650km (404 miles or so) on a single charge to 750km (around 465 miles).

Although the battery is said to be twice as big as previous versions, it has a fivefold increase in energy capacity, according to Nikkei. As such, cars need fewer of the batteries, which are already 10 to 20 percent cheaper to produce. It’s estimated that batteries account for 30 percent of the cost of EVs. A cost reduction could make EVs more affordable and hasten the transition to electric vehicles. What’s more, a longer range means drivers won’t need to charge batteries as often.
Panasonic, a long-time partner of Tesla, is reportedly investing around 80 billion yen ($704 million) on new equipment to produce the 4680. It’s said to be expanding an existing plant in Japan and making the batteries there to begin with. Nikkei reports the company will start making the cells on a small scale this year to develop safe and efficient processes before entering mass production in 2023. It may mass produce the batteries in other countries later.

The company confirmed to Reuters that it was setting up a test production line in 2022, though didn’t say when it will start making the batteries at a larger scale. “We are studying various options for mass production,” it said.

Panasonic started working on the cell following a request from Tesla. The head of Panasonic’s battery division said in November that the company hasn’t ruled out producing the cell for other automakers, though Tesla is its priority. Tesla CEO Elon Musk previously said that although his company plans to make its own batteries, it would continue to source them from other suppliers.

Tesla announced the 4680 at a Battery Day event in September 2020. At the time, Musk said the cell and other developments could enable Tesla to start selling a $25,000 EV.

[SemiNormal]

I saw one article claiming the capacity of the 4680 was 9,000mAh and another claiming 26,000mAh. Considering this would be 5x the volume of a 21700 cell, 9,000mAh would be horrible in terms of efficiency. But even 26,000mAh is still about 5x the storage of a 21700. Guess we will see once they actually reach manufacturing.

[ArturoSC1]

@SemiNormal

I saw one article claiming the capacity of the 4680 was 9,000mAh and another claiming 26,000mAh. Considering this would be 5x the volume of a 21700 cell, 9,000mAh would be horrible in terms of efficiency. But even 26,000mAh is still about 5x the storage of a 21700. Guess we will see once they actually reach manufacturing.

In the presentation they announced that they would have 5 times the capacity and 6 times the intensity of a 21700. If you take a 50E as a base we talk about 25Ah and 60A, if it were a 40T it would be 20Ah and 210A. Both very respectable figures for a battery that is the same diameter as the 3x 21700 and only a centimeter longer.

[manithree]

@ArturoSC1

In the presentation they announced that they would have 5 times the capacity and 6 times the intensity of a 21700. If you take a 50E as a base we talk about 25Ah and 60A, if it were a 40T it would be 20Ah and 210A. Both very respectable figures for a battery that is the same diameter as the 3x 21700 and only a centimeter longer.

I can see how some people wouldn’t get excited about it. Ok, I’m lying, I really can’t. A new revision of a Q8- or a D4S-like light with that kind of capacity and current makes me salivate. I hope they live up to the hype and the EV market drops a few crumbs for us.

Worry about parasitic drain would be a thing of the past, at least.

[Photon_Master]

How about an Imalent MS19 with 6 of those bad boys and 36 SBT90.2s

[JaredM]

I’m thinking along the lines of a D18 or MF01S

[manithree]

@Photon Master

How about an Imalent MS19 with 6 of those bad boys and 36 SBT90.2s

@JaredM

I’m thinking along the lines of a D18 or MF01S

You’re both making a very good point, and I agree, but I hate it. If there are 4680 lights, the first ones are going to be outside the range of what I consider “budget.” Which is probably ok, because the cells will probably not be “budget” initially, if they are made available to plebes like us.

I don’t by torches that cost over $100. I’m definitely going to take a wait-and-see approach if the cells cost that much, and I’ll be shocked if they don’t, at least early on.