TrustFire TR-J12, $54-Shipped, Aliexpress

[kramer5150]

@Shopbot

hey guys,

I was doing a runtime test on my one with 3 partly charged Panasonic NCR18650A 3100mAh protected batteries.

It went for 1hr then all of the sudden the flashlight turned itself off (there wasn't any noticeable dim during the hour btw).

I thought the J12 meant to change to lower modes first before shutting down completely? Is this correct?

When I checked the batteries, they were around 3.05V left in them.

I thought these batteries can go down to 2.5V before the protection kicks in and also thought the J12 can run well below 3V as well.

Hmmm, what is going on...

After reading this I took some depleted Sony 18650 cells and ran two them down in my J12. These cells were depleted previously down to 3V in a capacity test, and deemed too little capacity to be any use. But they're suitable for tests like this when I want to see how a light behaves when the cells run down. The cells had rebounded back to 3.8V.

I ran the light tailstanding for a few minutes, enough to get the head very warm. Took a tailcap current measurement and the boost circuit was pulling 5.5A. I noticed the cells were VERY hot at this time. Too hot to comfortably hold in my hands, so I stopped the test here (fearing some kind of melt-down) measured the cells and they rebounded back to 3.5V each.

Paused here and let everything cool down for 20 minutes.

Ran the test again. Cells started out at 3.5V each. Re-loaded them and ran them in HI for 4-5 minutes (as I type this), long enough to get the light warmed up again. Measured current draw, and it was still pulling 5A, down a little ~.5A from before. The cells were once again very HOT, measured cell voltage and it had dropped to 3.3V. So things seem to slowly be dropping, as the cells deplete.

Paused here and let everything cool down again.

Ran the test again. Cells started at 3.35V. Only this time (knowing the cells will be completely depleted) I ran the test without the tailcap, passing current straight through my Fluke meter. Current topped of at 7.2A for a brief moment (maybe 10 seconds) and started to drop rapidly down to ~1.75-2A. Went over to the wall and confirmed HI output had dropped to MED, so the circuit was doing what its supposed to. Truncating the HI mode. The other thing I noticed was mode switching began to "flicker" a little between modes as I flipped. It wasn't a crisp HI-MED-LO cut. Pulled the cells and they measured 2.85V each, and they rebounded back to 3.25V after a 3-4 minute rest.

I Re-loaded the cells and ran the light again. At this point its clear the circuit is dropping both HI and MED output down to a lower mode, maybe a little brighter than LO. At no point did the light output cut off completely. I stopped testing here, bad/dangerous/explosive things can happen running Lithium cells depleted this far.

BLF'er benkie and a couple others have been very vocal about the existence of fake Trustfire TRJ-12 and J18 lights... and from reading others comments and reports that appears to be a very likely scenario. Personally I think it goes deeper than that... I think it has to do with the driver board supplier, and their ability (or lack thee-of) to manufacture the same DC-DC circuit form batch to batch. I have always wondered why they take the extra time to scratch off the component ID and BIN numbers from the SMT components. After reading threads like this HERE , I personally believe the driver board manufacturers are stuffing the circuit boards with whatever components they can get their hands on. They may not always be 100% compatible or identically capable. By the time you add together the cumulative sum of inter-mixed parts on each board, you end up with the variation we are seeing across the population.

Anyhow... I think this particular J12 from the aliexpress $54 batch is a good one. Just be careful with unprotected cells, and don't run them all the way down. Watch out for HOT cells, HI mode dimming down to MED, and a slight "flicker" between modes, these are all signs the cells are fully depleted.

[Hikelite]

@kramer5150

BLF'er benkie and a couple others have been very vocal about the existence of fake Trustfire TRJ-12 and J18 lights... and from reading others comments and reports that appears to be a very likely scenario. Personally I think it goes deeper than that... I think it has to do with the driver board supplier, and their ability (or lack thee-of) to manufacture the same DC-DC circuit form batch to batch. I have always wondered why they take the extra time to scratch off the component ID and BIN numbers from the SMT components. After reading threads like this HERE , I personally believe the driver board manufacturers are stuffing the circuit boards with whatever components they can get their hands on. They may not always be 100% compatible or identically capable. By the time you add together the cumulative sum of inter-mixed parts on each board, you end up with the variation we are seeing across the population.

Anyhow... I think this particular J12 from the aliexpress $54 batch is a good one. Just be careful with unprotected cells, and don't run them all the way down.

The fake mentality is a bit exaggerated, sometimes they simply have another batch with another driver (or bad batch) coupled with some low QC on the machining. Or they have chosen to sell the best then slowly offer the ones that are not that good.

As for that DX driver, the client is let known from the title, photos and description that is not clear what he will receive.

I have many Nanjg drivers, (eg.7135x3, more options than the DX one) and all are perfect and all use the same components.

I would agree, that on some drivers manufacturers are stuffing what they can find.

[Shopbot]

Hey guys, I appreciate your inputs. I'm understanding things a bit better now cause of it.

The reason why my J12 suddenly shut down was because one of the batteries protection circuit kicked in. I did measure it at 0.00v and didn't think much of it at the time and thought it was my cheap DMM playing up so I placed it in my hobby charger in calibration mode to see the volt and now both the charger and DMM shows it at 3.05v. Prior to this, I did not know that once the protection circuit is activated, the battery will show 0v. Now I know (post #25).

So what happened was, during my runtime test, I guess there was high current flowing (high mode) thus the voltage decreased under load (as Hikelite explained) to a point where it hit 2.5v and therefore activating the protection circuit and shutdown the J12 immediately. During off load, I measured the one battery at 0v then 3.05v (as explained above). So under load vs off load, there was a difference of about 0.55v.

So now all my batteries are still > 3.00v.

So what that is happening with my J12 is that the battery protection kicks in BEFORE it has a chance to change to the lower modes (as with kramer's one). Hmmm, why is that?

I have also tested the batteries (cooled) now and it shows 3.15v compared to yesterday when the batteries were warm at 3.05v. A 0.1v gain overnight. Is this normal?

Thanks again for your inputs.

[benckie]

Batteries climb back up in voltage after the load has stopped the longer the rest the more they climb.

[Shopbot]

Thanks benckie. Oh yeah I see now, Kramers batteries also increased (posted #26)

Just one thing now, my damn J12 won't change down to lower modes using 18650.

Prior to receiving the 18650 batteries, I did use AA batteries and it did change down modes and flicker as well.

Not the case with the 18650's though (for my 1 test at least). Would be scary using unprotected batteries..

[edc]

I tried some Blue 3100 18650 from Int Outdoor with the dodgy protection circuit. Light flashes once. No good as expected.

[benckie]

@Shopbot

Thanks benckie. Oh yeah I see now, Kramers batteries also increased (posted #26)

Just one thing now, my damn J12 won't change down to lower modes using 18650.

Prior to receiving the 18650 batteries, I did use AA batteries and it did change down modes and flicker as well.

Not the case with the 18650's though (for my 1 test at least). Would be scary using unprotected batteries..

What batteries are they ? as some crap 18650's will not hold there voltage aswell as some nimh, you light could be running in low voltage mode.

I use 2 x unprotected panisonic NCR18650A's and get a current draw over 6 amps this gives me around 20 mins run time.

@edc

I tried some Blue 3100 18650 from Int Outdoor with the dodgy protection circuit. Light flashes once. No good as expected.

They where crap hey

[Shopbot]

@benckie

What batteries are they ? as some crap 18650's will not hold there voltage aswell as some nimh, you light could be running in low voltage mode.

I use 2 x unprotected panisonic NCR18650A's and get a current draw over 6 amps this gives me around 20 mins run time.

3 x intl-outdoor protected ncr18650a 3100mah. I'm like really certain that the J12 was on high mode the whole time (there wasn't like any noticeable dim at all).

So when you were running those 2 unprotected batteries, did the J12 let you know that the batteries is nearly done? by like flickering or changing down modes automatically.

[benckie]

Yours could have bad protection curits like the early ones from IO. Mine dims. I usualy go by time as i know what the batteries discharge like at 6.2 amps from my hobby charger test's.

[Hikelite]

Highly doubt such thing, the same cells are sold by several reputable companies, well know fact at this time.

[Shopbot]

I actually have the one IO is currently selling (http://www.intl-outdoor.com/panasonic-ncr18650a-3100mah-protected-batteryone-p-333.html) and not the old batch (was it the grey version? I forgot) which I read people on here have issues and Hank offering them a discount on the newer version (which is the one I have).

So I guess my question is, at what voltage or current does the J12 decide to move from HI to MED/LO?

Again in case anyone missed it, the battery that the protection circuit activated, reads 3.05v (when warm) after I deactivated the protection with my hobby charger.

[benckie]

@kramer5150

@Shopbot

hey guys,

I was doing a runtime test on my one with 3 partly charged Panasonic NCR18650A 3100mAh protected batteries.

It went for 1hr then all of the sudden the flashlight turned itself off (there wasn't any noticeable dim during the hour btw).

I thought the J12 meant to change to lower modes first before shutting down completely? Is this correct?

When I checked the batteries, they were around 3.05V left in them.

I thought these batteries can go down to 2.5V before the protection kicks in and also thought the J12 can run well below 3V as well.

Hmmm, what is going on...

After reading this I took some depleted Sony 18650 cells and ran two them down in my J12. These cells were depleted previously down to 3V in a capacity test, and deemed too little capacity to be any use. But they're suitable for tests like this when I want to see how a light behaves when the cells run down. The cells had rebounded back to 3.8V.

I ran the light tailstanding for a few minutes, enough to get the head very warm. Took a tailcap current measurement and the boost circuit was pulling 5.5A. I noticed the cells were VERY hot at this time. Too hot to comfortably hold in my hands, so I stopped the test here (fearing some kind of melt-down) measured the cells and they rebounded back to 3.5V each.

Paused here and let everything cool down for 20 minutes.

Ran the test again. Cells started out at 3.5V each. Re-loaded them and ran them in HI for 4-5 minutes (as I type this), long enough to get the light warmed up again. Measured current draw, and it was still pulling 5A, down a little ~.5A from before. The cells were once again very HOT, measured cell voltage and it had dropped to 3.3V. So things seem to slowly be dropping, as the cells deplete.

Paused here and let everything cool down again.

Ran the test again. Cells started at 3.35V. Only this time (knowing the cells will be completely depleted) I ran the test without the tailcap, passing current straight through my Fluke meter. Current topped of at 7.2A for a brief moment (maybe 10 seconds) and started to drop rapidly down to ~1.75-2A. Went over to the wall and confirmed HI output had dropped to MED, so the circuit was doing what its supposed to. Truncating the HI mode. The other thing I noticed was mode switching began to "flicker" a little between modes as I flipped. It wasn't a crisp HI-MED-LO cut. Pulled the cells and they measured 2.85V each, and they rebounded back to 3.25V after a 3-4 minute rest.

I Re-loaded the cells and ran the light again. At this point its clear the circuit is dropping both HI and MED output down to a lower mode, maybe a little brighter than LO. At no point did the light output cut off completely. I stopped testing here, bad/dangerous/explosive things can happen running Lithium cells depleted this far.

BLF'er benkie and a couple others have been very vocal about the existence of fake Trustfire TRJ-12 and J18 lights... and from reading others comments and reports that appears to be a very likely scenario. Personally I think it goes deeper than that... I think it has to do with the driver board supplier, and their ability (or lack thee-of) to manufacture the same DC-DC circuit form batch to batch. I have always wondered why they take the extra time to scratch off the component ID and BIN numbers from the SMT components. After reading threads like this HERE , I personally believe the driver board manufacturers are stuffing the circuit boards with whatever components they can get their hands on. They may not always be 100% compatible or identically capable. By the time you add together the cumulative sum of inter-mixed parts on each board, you end up with the variation we are seeing across the population.

Anyhow... I think this particular J12 from the aliexpress $54 batch is a good one. Just be careful with unprotected cells, and don't run them all the way down. Watch out for HOT cells, HI mode dimming down to MED, and a slight "flicker" between modes, these are all signs the cells are fully depleted.

My driver runs around 6 amps tops out at 7.5 amp then dims and the current drops right off, i think they or some are digitaly regulated at 7.5 amps max. I have brought this up in my calling all tr-j12 owners thread. I to dont belive all tr-j11,s are made equal.

[kramer5150]

@Shopbot

I actually have the one IO is currently selling (http://www.intl-outdoor.com/panasonic-ncr18650a-3100mah-protected-batteryone-p-333.html) and not the old batch (was it the grey version? I forgot) which I read people on here have issues and Hank offering them a discount on the newer version (which is the one I have).

So I guess my question is, at what voltage or current does the J12 decide to move from HI to MED/LO?

Again in case anyone missed it, the battery that the protection circuit activated, reads 3.05v (when warm) after I deactivated the protection with my hobby charger.

Mine appears to cut off HI at around 3V per cell, but as I suspect above theres a high likelihood not all J12s have identical DC-DC circuits. Its almost impossible to measure though because with cells depleted this far down unloaded cell voltage is much greater than voltage under load, and the cell voltage will rebound within a minute or two. Note also that my testing ONLY pertains to the TWO cell configuration. I havent tested it with 3x cells.

[33696933]

I have checked current on both of my TR-J12 between driver and led. One has alot of brass around the driver and the other has mostly plastic and smaller brass middle.

Using Sanyo 2600 fully charged and partially depleted gave similar results .

TR J12 BRASS

3 CELL 1.42 HI , 0.88 MED 0.22 LOW

2 CELL 1.47 HI , .88 MED .20 LOW

TR J12 NYLON

3 CELL 1.41 HI , 0.86 MED , 0.21 LOW

2 CELL 1.45 HI , 0.85 MED , 0.19 LOW

[Richie086]

Kramer, do you have a link to the Aliexpress retailer you purchased from?

[kramer5150]

@Richie086

Kramer, do you have a link to the Aliexpress retailer you purchased from?

Sure...

China East Face Science&Technology Co., Ltd

Store No.903269

Heres the URL:

http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/903269

[Electroman187]

Couldn’t hold out any longer! My first multi-emitter light is now on the way. This really seems like a steal.

So the question that begs to be asked is: Why isn’t everyone getting in on this deal? Killer light and killer price from a good vendor.

[Richie086]

@Electroman187

Couldn’t hold out any longer! My first multi-emitter light is now on the way. This really seems like a steal.

So the question that begs to be asked is: Why isn’t everyone getting in on this deal? Killer light and killer price from a good vendor.

Just tried to order one too, but in the cart it says the seller is sold out. So my search for a good multi-XML 2x26650 light continues.

J12

[bose301s]

Got it Thursday, very nice light. Bright as can be, throws about as far as my BC40 but at that lights up a MUCH LARGER hot spot, plus everything else in sight. Still kinda want to do the KD monster driver if I can get it programmed for a Turbo mode of like 3500 lumes, then a high that’s the same as the current high, med that’s the same and a low that’s the same since the High currently it can run at for a long time and the med and low modes are pretty well spaced, and the Turbo would only be usable for a little while. Overall, I quite like this light.

[Electroman187]

@bose301s

Still kinda want to do the KD monster driver if I can get it programmed for a Turbo mode of like 3500 lumes, then a high that’s the same as the current high, med that’s the same and a low that’s the same since the High currently it can run at for a long time and the med and low modes are pretty well spaced, and the Turbo would only be usable for a little while.

That would be sick. Lead the way, oh pioneer, and I shall follow!