Lishen LR2170LA 21700 "4000mah, 35amp"

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ArtieT59
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Lishen LR2170LA 21700 "4000mah, 35amp"

I am considering buying these, the Lishen LR2170LA 21700.

They are the “4000mah, 35amp” version, purple wrap.

Anyone have them?

Can anyone who has been using them share their thoughts?

Are you seeing lumen drops/increases or amperage drops/increases compared to the known top shelf 21700 high discharge batteries (Samsung, molicel, vapcell, etc) ?

I’ve never used any Lishen battery, that I know of.

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Sirstinky
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Sofirn rewraps these as their 4000 mAh 21700. They also rewrap them in the 5000 mAh version. Wurkkos uses the same batteries also. They’d be good to under 20 amps. Nowhere near a 40T though.

mbp
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Sirstinky wrote:
Sofirn rewraps these as their 4000 mAh 21700. They also rewrap them in the 5000 mAh version. Wurkkos uses the same batteries also. They’d be good to under 20 amps. Nowhere near a 40T though.

Well, the Sofirn cells are indeed rewrapped Lishens but not this exact one. The 4000mah Sofirn is a rewrapped LR2170SA. The 5000mah is a LR2170SD. This one, LR2170LA, is Lishen’s newest cell, I don’t know of Sofirn using it yet, and I haven’t seen any tests or anything. Lishen makes good batteries, I don’t know if I’d expect true 35A continuous out of this one, but it should still be pretty high drain. Lishen hasn’t inflated their numbers historically.

ArtieT59
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mbp wrote:
Sirstinky wrote:
Sofirn rewraps these as their 4000 mAh 21700. They also rewrap them in the 5000 mAh version. Wurkkos uses the same batteries also. They’d be good to under 20 amps. Nowhere near a 40T though.

Well, the Sofirn cells are indeed rewrapped Lishens but not this exact one. The 4000mah Sofirn is a rewrapped LR2170SA. The 5000mah is a LR2170SD. This one, LR2170LA, is Lishen’s newest cell, I don’t know of Sofirn using it yet, and I haven’t seen any tests or anything. Lishen makes good batteries, I don’t know if I’d expect true 35A continuous out of this one, but it should still be pretty high drain. Lishen hasn’t inflated their numbers historically.


Thanks mpb and stirstinky. Yea I figured this one is new because I haven’t seen a mooch or hjk review or any others. I have some Wurkkos and sofirn batteries and they are good.

I figured 35a sounds high, but based off of moochs reciew even the 40t cannot do that. So I was hoping for 25amp on this Lishen , and also to hear some members say that their reliable batteries with a good reputation.

I’m hoping for around 25 amps because my idea is that I’ll buy three of these for the new WT90 sbt90.2 light that Texas Ace posted about, which is coming out in a couple weeks. I don’t want to wait for molicel p42a from my preferred battery place or pay almost twice as much for the Sony vtc6 21700. But if the p42a comes back in stock I’ll most likely just buy those since they’re the same price as these Lishen’s.

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zoulas
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The Sofirn is a decent battery. Sofirn charges a very fair price for them.I would not use them in a super performance light but for anything else, they are prefect.

cowboygg
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Dark green 50S Blue LA purple 40T


Deep purple 40T Light purple LA


GREEN 50S

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Wow, better than a 40T. Pretty decent if your light can take the larger than 21mm diameter. This looks like a good, cheap and available replacement as 40Ts become scarce.

ArtieT59
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^ thats what Im thinking, those graphs show it beating outpacing 40t as far as I can see, right?
Amazing! Thank you for sharing those graphs! I am going to be buying some, just to give them a try if nothing else.

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NiOOH
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Samsung 40T is a good cell, but starts to show its age in terms of technology.

ArtieT59
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NiOOH wrote:
Samsung 40T is a good cell, but starts to show its age in terms of technology.

How do you mean?

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NiOOH
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I mean that, when the 40T first came around (I noticed it sometime in the spring of 2018) it set new standards for high current 21700 cells. There weren’t that many 21700s at all back then, no Molicell P42A, no Lishens. Now, 3 years later, it doesn’t look so undisputed anymore, and this is normal. The technology moves on.

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OK, i understand what you’re saying. Yea im pretty invested in 40t’s which makes me think i will hold off because eventually the vapcell / samsung 5000mah 25amp battery (T50?) will be available and these 40t’s will not be too important.

On a seperate note im glad i started this thread because i had no idea about Lishen batteries and their reputation! Very glad about this!

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Sirstinky
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I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting on the T50…VapCell told me that they are not restocking the T50. They were a limited edition battery. Try to find some Samsung 50S instead (if you can).

ArtieT59
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yea i figured we probably wouldn’t see these hitting the market (samsung) until next year. I have enough 40t and p42a until then. of course at this point i wish i wouldve bought 100 40t’s last december when it was announced there would be 2021 price increases, because 18650 battery store was selling them for $6 (or $7) ! Now theyre $13… I could’ve been selling them at $10 now for a fair profit .

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Sirstinky
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You can buy 40T rewraps from Vapcell. I’m doubtful 50S will be for sale since they are pretty much exclusively going into these new outdoor power tools like mowers, blowers, weed trimmers, etc. It’s only a matter of time before drills/drivers and sawzalls start uaing 21700 over 18650.

ArtieT59
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Sirstinky wrote:
You can buy 40T rewraps from Vapcell. I’m doubtful 50S will be for sale since they are pretty much exclusively going into these new outdoor power tools like mowers, blowers, weed trimmers, etc. It’s only a matter of time before drills/drivers and sawzalls start uaing 21700 over 18650.

yea, ive always just worried about them fitting in my battery tubes diamtere-wise with the rewrap..

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ArtieT59
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And honestly, i try to stick with my one trusted battery vendor. if they have what i need, great. if they dont – i wait. usually i dont NEED anything, i just want it. I can always take a battery from a light im not using.

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NiOOH
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Artiet59 wrote:
OK, i understand what you’re saying. Yea im pretty invested in 40t’s which makes me think i will hold off because eventually the vapcell / samsung 5000mah 25amp battery (T50?) will be available and these 40t’s will not be too important.

On a seperate note im glad i started this thread because i had no idea about Lishen batteries and their reputation! Very glad about this!

Oh, if you have 40Ts just use them, absolutely nothing wrong with them, still one of the best out there. I’ve had one since 2019 and still use it. The cell has something like 100 cycles and still its IR is considerably lower than my new 50Es.

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Artie did you end up buying these Lishen? Or did anybody else? How are they performing, as expected?

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So far LR2170LA has not been tested by HKJ or Mooch and I wouldn’t trust these testings images in the tread. Nobody know whether these are real or just from the Lishen’s marketing.

Why not buy Molicel P42A instead? Same or cheaper price and reliability is very well documented.

@Lojik
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GhostJoe wrote:
So far LR2170LA has not been tested by HKJ or Mooch and I wouldn’t trust these testings images in the tread. Nobody know whether these are real or just from the Lishen’s marketing.

Why not buy Molicel P42A instead? Same or cheaper price and reliability is very well documented.

No reason, I may just go with Moli’s. I just wanted to follow up and see how these are working out.

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GhostJoe
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Barkuti wrote:

HKJ tested by now: Test/review of Lishen 21700 4000mAh LR2170LA (Purple).

Saw it last night, so clearly the testing imags posted earlier in this thread were false……

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The following is a screenshot I've taken from Henrik's battery cell comparator, comparing the LR2170LA versus the Samsung 40T at a few discharge currents:

 

 

This is a better way to see what's going on here. Lishen copied the Samsung 40T as best as they could. They did a very good job with it, but this is all.

Bear in mind the following, though:

  • The Samsung 40T test was done in August 2018. This doesn't mean that the comparison is invalid, although I'd prefer to see more updated data from 40T cells.
  • One of the LR2170SA cells could end its discharge curve at 30A. This really means nothing to me, there are other factors to consider. One among them is the fact that the ambient temperature in Henrik's test station matters, as its absolute limit is 75°C and any small variations in ambient temperature could slightly bias this. Just very slightly, though.

Lishen did a very good job reverse engineering the Samsung 40T and copying it. However, this is not everything…

Long ago, in an unbiased test Mooch did involving Sony/Murata VTC6, Samsung 30Q and LG HG2 cells (Bench Test Results: Which lasts longer? VTC6, 30Q, or HG2?), the results proved a noticeable difference between the contenders, with Samsung being the clear winner in endurance/lifespan.

I'd love to see unbiased data concerning the endurance and lifespan of Lishen cells, to see how do they fare in this regard. I have a few Lishens at home. I don't think they would match Samsung in this regard, but I also don't fear being wrong. I love reliable and long lasting things, by the way.


P.S.: Henrik should get a new type of cell holder, or an improved one, in my opinion. A custom made cell holder which resists much higher temperatures. He could make some higher current curves for bigger cells, for example, and avoid having to replace a holder from time to time. Wink 

The human mind, and its programming, is at the forefront of a particular battle of The Light vs evil dark forces. Nearly every human being on this beautiful planet “Earth” has some sort of negative mind programming in its mind. And you better take care of your mind programming, or someone else will in this wicked world.

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If you look at initial voltage sage 40T is obviously better, particularly under hign current. I agree with you that Lishen did pretty well with this cell. By comparison Molicel P42A is a lot worse on voltage sage. But one thing I don’t understand is why Lishen didn’t use bottom vent only with this cell, all other Lishen cells have it. Also I think HKJ’s test is 40T1 while current version is 40T3. But it is strange that Mooch’s test showed 40T3 is worse than 40T1. I remember seeing somewhere else said that 40T3 is much better than T1. Maybe Mooch tested pre-production cells.

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Other factor to consider is that this LR2170LA cell delivered less capacity and energy than the 40T, more than 100mAh less on average. At 1A, for example, the 40T delivered 3849mAh, while the LR2170SA just 3716mAh.

 

 

From the information in the above cell data charts, it can be seen that the LR2170LA delivered 3707.5mAh and 13513.6̅Wh on average at the given discharge rates (0.2A, 0.5A, 1A, 2A, 3A and 5A), while the 40T did 3838.83̅mAh and 13975.3̅ Wh.

Their average voltage is very very close to make a difference, while the lesser capacity means the discharge ends up faster at the same rate, and so the lesser capacity cell heats up to a lesser extent.

Edit.- All in all, I think the Samsung cell is the better choice. But price matters, too.

Tue, 10/12/2021 - 06:01

The human mind, and its programming, is at the forefront of a particular battle of The Light vs evil dark forces. Nearly every human being on this beautiful planet “Earth” has some sort of negative mind programming in its mind. And you better take care of your mind programming, or someone else will in this wicked world.

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GhostJoe wrote:
… But one thing I don't understand is why Lishen didn't use bottom vent only with this cell, all other Lishen cells have it. …

It is for the cell to be more easily disguised as a Samsung 40T.

Above is the top and bottom of the LR2170LA, below is the top and bottom of the 40T:

 

 

Lishen is a chinese manufacturer, and China is famous for copying stuff. What did you expect? Wink They have a problem with self steem, imho.

Of course Lishen has its own, different wrap. However, a battery reseller, who of course rewraps cells, now has it very very easy to sell Lishen LR2170LA cells as Samsung 40T ones. Fortunately the devil is in the details, at least for an expert.

The human mind, and its programming, is at the forefront of a particular battle of The Light vs evil dark forces. Nearly every human being on this beautiful planet “Earth” has some sort of negative mind programming in its mind. And you better take care of your mind programming, or someone else will in this wicked world.

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@Lojik wrote:
Artie did you end up buying these Lishen? Or did anybody else? How are they performing, as expected?

 

Hey there Lojik, So i did not. But now after seeing HKJ's review, i am going to be buying some. I was waiting for him or Mooch to post something about them. They look pretty decent compared to 40t, but at less than half the cost (Dont look now, but 18650batterystore.com just dropped a sale on them). Which im surprised, bc they historically sell out over there in what seems like a week every time they get them in lol.

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I regret getting LG M50T and Tesla 21700 rewraps. I thought the Tesla cells were the best deal around but they can’t be pushed past 10A. Although, I don’t know if they do much better new with low internal resistance. I’m purchasing Lishen LR2170LA until something better comes along. The price is unbeatable on Taobao – only 10 CNY and 1/3 the price of a 40T.

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fogofwar wrote:
I regret getting LG M50T and Tesla 21700 rewraps. I thought the Tesla cells were the best deal around but they can’t be pushed past 10A. Although, I don’t know if they do much better new with low internal resistance. I’m purchasing Lishen LR2170LA until something better comes along. The price is unbeatable on Taobao – only 10 CNY and 1/3 the price of a 40T.

Both M50T and Tesla 21700s are mediocre cells but I used Amex Small biz offer and got 3xTesla 21700s for $7 shipped. My testing all came with 4900mah+ capacity and it is very hard to beat this price. Be careful with Taobao Lishen cells. What I red about Lishen is that the variation on capacity/performance is easily beyond +/- 20% off for the same cell so better to buy from reliable vendors.

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Their average voltage is very very close to make a difference, while the lesser capacity means the discharge ends up faster at the same rate, and so the lesser capacity cell heats up to a lesser extent.


Edit.- All in all, I think the Samsung cell is the better choice. But price matters, too.


Tue, 10/12/2021 – 06:01

[/quote]

For flashlights the initial voltage sage is very important to push out the highest lumen, average voltage means nothing on this. I personally chose 30T for that purpose and I think I got them $3.99 each when 18650 ran a promotion.

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