What about the CRI hype (color rendering index)

I’d say lower CRI reduces the contrast, it also flattens the perspective. There are no upsides of low CRI high CCT light, it should be used for decorational purposes only.

I know this is only anecdotal, but when I walk the wooded paths or the dirt and gravel roads around us I found that the lights with the higher CRI leds seemed to make discerning objects off in the dark easier. Plus the foliage appeared more realistic. Much of what is said about the subject of CRI centers around red, the R9. But I first noticed that the greens of the grasses, leafy planys as well as the evergreens were easier to differentiate with 90+ CRI.

Inside our home the woodwork, the wood doors and trim, the cabinetry, etc. all reveal their true colors under 90+ CRI lighting. I must admit that it takes more effort for me to discern the differences between my 90 CRI flashlights and the couple I have with 98+ Optisolis leds. But the difference is there, though not as important.

I don’t even like the lower CRI cold, flourescent lighting in the barn any more. The tractor was not the right (correct) color at night. :wink:
Most of those are now 80+ CRI led’s now. Cost can be a factor.

That may be one reason I find higher CRI lights better for walking trails at night.

Is there a “warm” competitor for an Osram CSLNM1.TG?

CRI has its place, but isn’t the be-all-and-end-all when it comes to flashlights, at least for most people.

Advantages of low-CRI compared to high-CRI in flashlights:

  • Available at higher outputs. SST-40 is only available in low-CRI
  • Available in higher intensities. Oslon White 1, White 2, and SFT-40 are only available in low-CRI (and only in cool white for that matter). Yet flashaholics still love these leds because they are the throw-kings. Sure, what they illuminate off in the distance may look horrible, but at least you see something. The best-looking high-CRI light in the world is useless if it doesn’t put enough light on the target to actually see it.
  • Cheaper
  • Larger selection, not just of LEDS, but in manufactured flashlights. This can be especially useful for people who are not modders and aren’t interested in or capable of emitter swapping to a high-CRI LED.

My personal experience: at first I was not a CRI fan. Available high-CRI leds like Nichia 219B had enormously lower output than low-CRI options like XPL-HI. The advantage in lumens, intensity, and in some cases tint seemed to vastly outweigh the marginal benefit from high-CRI. My preferred LED for years was XPL HI 5D.

However, today’s high-CRI leds like Nichia 219C, LH351D and SST-20 have dramatically narrowed the gap. An Emisar D4 with 95 CRI SST-20s in it looks to punch a similar distance to XPL HI. And despite the SST-20s putting out 2/3 the lumens, things illuminated are actually easier to see due to the extra contrast from high CRI.

Like many other flashaholics on these forums, my preferences have gradually evolved to prefer high-CRI.

  • Nowadays, if I get a new EDC light I either buy it in high-CRI or with a plan to swap the LEDs to high-CRI.
  • I have gone so far as to actually swap out almost all my XPL HI leds and replace them with high-CRI SST-20s.
  • Unfortunately, I couldn’t replace them all as Kaidomain finished off their reel of good FD2 bin emitters, and their new reel of supposed FD2 emitters all have the much more common greenish tint typical of SST-20s. I don’t think their new reel is actually FD2 bin. GRRR.

I respect that others who are not flashlight connoisseurs may not care about CRI. My other family members who are not flashaholics couldn’t care less about CRI … they just want a flashlight to produce white light.

NOTE: When people are talking about preferring high or low-CRI on these forums, they’re really talking about white light flashlights. I think it’s a bit ludicrous to assume that someone who prefers low-CRI white cares so little about color rendition that they would actually be better off with a monochromatic red, green or amber flashlight.

Lh351d is a very floody LED, so it will appear less bright if you compare it to a different LED like xpl2,CRI aside. The brain perceives brightness by the amount of light intensity on what we are looking it, which is not the same as the lumen output of the LED. For a fair comparison, you would have to use two identical LEDs in the exact same setup to truly guage if the drop in output/efficiency is worth the compromise for high CRI. The difference is usually about 25% less from 70 CRI to 90 CRI, which is not a significant difference but a noticeable one nonetheless.

I think it’s fine to favour brighter and low CRI if that’s what you prefer.

Tint, CCT, beam intensity, etc all aside, all else equal but CRI, will personally gladly take high CRI over low CRI as I find the difference in color rendering far outweighs the slight drop in output for me personally.

The other thing is that lights have gotten so bright, that in most cases even a high CRI has more than enough output. Example, a Fireflies E12r with 219b is ridiculously bright, and the tint, CCT, and color rendering is jaw droppingly good. Yes, an XPL Hi 70 CRI in the same light will shine a little further at the highest setting, but that’s not what the light is best suited for, so not important to me. In the most practical and typical scenario of how I will use the light illuminating short to medium distances, I don’t feel like I am compromising anything with the 219b E12r. In a Thrower where ultimate reach is the goal, then it may make more sense to go lower CRI.

And as it has been mentioned in many other discussions, tint, CCT, beam profile are all equally important compositions of light quality.

For my EDC lights, CCT and beam pattern are the most important, but CRI is a very close third. It’s not about right or wrong, it’s your usage and preference.

And, maybe you’ll never run into a situation where the angry blue emitter some manufacture chose to get a few extra lumens in their specifications frustrates you, endangers you, or just doesn’t work as well. But some of us already have, and if I need expensive gear to measure the difference between the output of the ugly blue vs. the warm high CRI (it’s frequently not easily discernible to the human eye), I’ll take the one that works best for me.

  1. I do have a neutral white flashlight with low CRI (Nitecore MH20 nw) and I agree with the green, I disagree with the brown. With low CRI/R9 brown looks pale, at higher brightness/intensoty it even turns slightly towards brown-grey mix.
    Cool white light does not increase contrast, it decreases the contrast because the abundance of blue light and low CRI are making colors flatter.

2. CCT is nothing but a calculated number. It is NOT a physical attribute.

3. Blue light is irritating to our eyes, some poeple confuse it with “refreshing and alerting”. Or in other words - it’s alerting through irritation.

Everybody has their preference, their use cases. I for one am after great light, as natural as possible, as pleasant as possible and I’m willing to trade sheer power for it. If OP is after a great amount of light, that’s fine too. It’s not about the numbers and I don’t think it’s fair to suggest that a single parameter could define a light generating device as generally better or worse. It makes it better or worse suited to one’s needs.

Low cri = bad and awful
High cri = good and nice

Case closed :disguised_face:

I have noticed that when looking at things outside in the dark (bricks, plants, wood, foliage, buildings, etc.):

  • SST-20 4000K 95 CRI only produces 2/3 the lumens of XPL HI 4000K 5D.
  • However, despite the lower lumens, it is actually quite a bit easier to SEE things with the SST-20. Everything comes out sharp and clear, with well-defined colors and good contrast. The colors don’t appear washed out or mixed together like with the XPL-HI.

This is why I prefer high-CRI. It just makes it easier to see things. It also doesn’t hurt, that things are more pleasant to look at.

But

Colors

Of course it matters. I’m not colorblind in the slightest so color rentidion makes a difference to me.

8% of the male population is to some degree colour blind to red-green. Some say that percentage is even higher. I fall into that category and i have noticed the colours that i’m perceiving largely depend on the surrounding light and colours. So whilst i might think i’m seeing the colours perfectly…. how would i know?? Well unless there is a huge shift in my perception of a given colour, i wouldn’t know. I’m still seeing green, just a different shade of green.

Which brings us back to there is no correct single thing. It is all a matter of personal perception and likes/dislikes…

… some people…?? I think that’s a given for everyone

They’re cheaper to buy and make for higher paper specs. Same thing with consumer cameras, more pixels don’t mean better picture quality, but the number is higher so it must be better. Consumer audio goes for the sheer Watts, sheer bass power. Casual consumer has been led to crave maximum performance in place of finesse.

Many people don’t realise their own needs, desires, often they’ve never had a chance to experience a nice /light/ or /stereo system/ or whatever, so they’re ready to accept the marketers’ criteria of what constitutes a good product.

That’s why we have choice. If I were to spec a lighting system to illuminate a lift shaft once a year for an inspection, I’d go for the cheaper low CRI stuff but when I do art installations, it’s 98 CRI plus.

You’re free to pick a low CRI light if it fulfills your needs better, but at the same time, our eye has not evolved around monochromatic or spiky white spectra and it does miss out on some information from the environment when it’s lit by those. You can be fine with that but I think it’s fair to assume that many people who choose to discuss torches in their free time might have more specific requirements and this would be the reason.

I am not color blind, according to the test that rayfish posted in post #46. I have lots of different flashlights, and I am ok with all of the various characteristics of the light that they emit. No complaints from me. I do enjoy reading posts from people with more knowledge and experience than me.

This again? :slight_smile: I guess really it boils down to that old crux of “quality vs. quantity.”

I’m not a cri-baby but I very much appreciate higher CRI in lights these days - it makes such a difference. That difference can just be enjoyment or eye comfort but it can also be quite important for work such as what electricians, HVAC techs, and plumbers are often faced with (and to the same degree many other electronics and appliance technicians that may be working with many different colored components and/or with powered circuits). Automotive techs and those who work with metal fab also benefit a lot from higher/more natural color rendition. For those few who might enjoy night photography in nature, especially macro at night, there’s just no good reason to go back to low rendition and poor temperature choices.

Just sitting in the house or out walking around, it’s nice but to me it’s no big deal if I have to regress to something approaching cold-blue that flattens the world. If I hadn’t “grown up” with ugly LED output as they took over the world, it might bother me more since what we have today is generally so much better even in the middleground.

Anecdotal input: I had a good friend who was color blind. I never knew this until we started hiking one spring and I was teaching him a little about the plants and wildflowers. He was typical red/green and it was very interesting to learn about his view of the world. Eventually he got a craving to go backpacking and we did. Well, his experience with the typical cold white dimmer LEDs of the era, leaning to bluish sometimes, was unpleasant and almost dangerous in some areas. He actually could see better with the red aux light, but he could see and hike the best with good old halogen. I thought it was fascinating and it made me think more deeply about Light and our perceptions…which was part of what drove me toward forums and eventually got he hooked. :slight_smile: