LG INR21700-M50LT - Is is a new battery ?

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tiry31
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LG INR21700-M50LT - Is is a new battery ?

I saw on Nkon a new battery :

https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-ion/21700-20700-size/lg-m50lt.html

Is this a new version of the LG 50T ?

The price is correct (less than 4€) and they indicate a 14.60 A discharge current.

I did not find a review for this model, any info ?

BlueSwordM
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Yes, it is a new cell, and its latest commercial user is actually Tesla for their updated M3/MY packs.

It is an upgraded version of the original M50 in basically every way.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

Bort
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BlueSwordM wrote:
Yes, it is a new cell, and its latest commercial user is actually Tesla for their updated M3/MY packs.

It is an upgraded version of the original M50 in basically every way


That is interesting, i wonder how many cycles its rated for.

The Journal of Alternative Facts

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of Alternative Facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists."

 

Pajda cz
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Many subvariants were available in the LG “M50“production line. The first “M50” was rated for 500 cycles (LG product spec info) with relatively high IR, then comes M50T with only 300 cycles (LG product spec info) and the same IR. The latest subvariant I know is “M50L” and “M50LT” which should deliver 1000 cycles (rumors) and ca 30% lower IR. M50LT is very good cell in its category and now it is available at an interesting price. You can check the results of ongoing cycle life tests on another discussion forum.

Bort
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Pajda cz wrote:
Many subvariants were available in the LG “M50“production line. The first “M50” was rated for 500 cycles (LG product spec info) with relatively high IR, then comes M50T with only 300 cycles (LG product spec info) and the same IR. The latest subvariant I know is “M50L” and “M50LT” which should deliver 1000 cycles (rumors) and ca 30% lower IR. M50LT is very good cell in its category and now it is available at an interesting price. You can check the results of ongoing cycle life tests on another discussion forum.

I tried googling it but only found one reference which is from a less then distinguished website.

The Journal of Alternative Facts

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of Alternative Facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists."

 

Azirine
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Bort wrote:
Pajda cz wrote:
Many subvariants were available in the LG “M50“production line. The first “M50” was rated for 500 cycles (LG product spec info) with relatively high IR, then comes M50T with only 300 cycles (LG product spec info) and the same IR. The latest subvariant I know is “M50L” and “M50LT” which should deliver 1000 cycles (rumors) and ca 30% lower IR. M50LT is very good cell in its category and now it is available at an interesting price. You can check the results of ongoing cycle life tests on another discussion forum.
I tried googling it but only found one reference which is from a less then distinguished website.

I believe it’s this website.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=114486

Bort
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Azirine wrote:
Bort wrote:
Pajda cz wrote:
Many subvariants were available in the LG “M50“production line. The first “M50” was rated for 500 cycles (LG product spec info) with relatively high IR, then comes M50T with only 300 cycles (LG product spec info) and the same IR. The latest subvariant I know is “M50L” and “M50LT” which should deliver 1000 cycles (rumors) and ca 30% lower IR. M50LT is very good cell in its category and now it is available at an interesting price. You can check the results of ongoing cycle life tests on another discussion forum.
I tried googling it but only found one reference which is from a less then distinguished website.

I believe it’s this website.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=114486


Your link appears to only show 150 cycles for this battery.

The Journal of Alternative Facts

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of Alternative Facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists."

 

Azirine
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Bort wrote:
Your link appears to only show 150 cycles for this battery.
Pajda cz wrote:
You can check the results of ongoing cycle life tests on another discussion forum.

This is probably the reason.

Bort
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Azirine wrote:
Bort wrote:
Your link appears to only show 150 cycles for this battery.
Pajda cz wrote:
You can check the results of ongoing cycle life tests on another discussion forum.

This is probably the reason.


I was hoping for a datasheet from LG.

The Journal of Alternative Facts

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of Alternative Facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists."

 

Pajda cz
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Bort wrote:
I was hoping for a datasheet from LG.

I do not have datasheet for LG M50 “L” line, only for older M50 model and then for M50T. The info about 1000 cycles was released by some distributors and of course LG has to compare the offer with the competition, where for example the original Samsung 50E model was also rated for 500 cycles only, but the newer 50G version already has 1000 cycles in its datasheet.

JaroWD
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Hello, could you advise me on the choice of cells? I decide between “Samsung INR21700-48× 4650mAh – 9.6A CLEAR WRAP” and “LG INR21700-M50LT 4890mAh – 14.4A”. While LG does not have a datasheet. I need a battery for an electric scooter, which has a large current. That’s why I need the “hardest” cells. Well thank you Smile

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Jaro…welcome to BLF!

Do you have an idea of how much current your scooter draws? Important to know that if possible.

I would think you might need a cell with higher current deliver (a high drain cell) like the Samsung 40T or Molicel P42A. They list with capacities of around 4000mAh but they are able to give more juice where the cells you listed will suffer from higher voltage drop and reduced capacity when asked to provide more amps. The Sofirn 4000mAh battery (black wrapper but not the 5000 version) is about the same, good cell. Generally the cells that state the highest mAh capacity for a given cell size can’t provide quite as much current, sometimes it matters, sometimes it doesn’t, but if they are worked hard you and don’t fall flat on their faces, they may only end up giving you the same capacity as the high drain cell anyway.

Sony/Murata also has a good 21700 if you find that one available (the Samsung and Moli are a little better).

BlueSwordM
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@JaroWD, if I had to choose, I’d get the LG INR21700-M50LT since it has lower internal resistance, and therefore, higher power capabilities.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

JaroWD
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Thank you for the explanation Smile
But I had to decide and I got a Samsung. Those LG cells have five different specified parameters on about five different pages, while the Samsungs have been tested and meet my requirements. Well thank you

Funtastic
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Mooch reviewed these and mentioned the following

“The top contact metal is also thinner than most cells and the “legs” coming down from it are narrow so I recommend not using this cell where there is a lot of pressure on the top contact.”

I’m guessing that these will be no good for flashlights, unless you add a solder blob or a button to reinforce it. Dropping the flashlight has a very high chance of denting it in.

Piercing The Darkness YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/c/PiercingTheDarkness

Bob_McBob
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Yeah, looking at the photos it is noticeably thinner than most cells.

leggera16
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They are rated for 1000 cyles when the recommended 4.10 charge voltage is used. Theres nothing new here other than how they were rated lol. Or if it is better it will be hard to compare to cells tested previously at the usual 4.2 without doing your own tests.

I got some for a lr60 nitecore camping light so hopefully should last me a weekend camping for the next decade.

A draft data sheet is posted here and mentions the reduced voltage to use to get the extra cycles.

https://www.18650batterystore.com/products/lg-m50lt-21700

Heres some gumpf that im sure most people know but that mentions how most cells go from 300/500 to 600/1000 cycles at 4.1v

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-base...
Pajda cz
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LG M50LT is currently probably the best cell in the HE category in terms of cycle life. In general, LG production can be relied on in this parameter, regardless cylindrical or pouch design. On the other hand, most of the competition is not far behind.

You can check results of 1000 cycle life test for community at another forum.

leggera16
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Ok so what cycles does it get when charged to 4.2v like every other manufacturer/spec sheet. Then you can make a decent comparison. Im sure everyone else will soon be jumping on the 4.1 boat soon though lol

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Don’t buy LG cells. Don’t sell LG cells. Be safe.

Illuminant E master race.

Pajda cz
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leggera16 wrote:
Ok so what cycles does it get when charged to 4.2v like every other manufacturer/spec sheet. Then you can make a decent comparison. Im sure everyone else will soon be jumping on the 4.1 boat soon though lol

The information in datasheets about cycle life is basically useless for any comparison. The reason why this information is given is the possibility of a warranty claim by the customer. The manufacturer would prefer not to provide this information at all for public.

For modern widely available HE cylindrical cells with >700Wh/l, the standard is 1000 cycles at 100% DoD (4.20-2.50V) with >80% nominal capacity left, 90-95% DoD (4.15-3.00V) after 1000 cycles ends >90% nominal. But of course if you like, you can still buy and use the cells with only 500 cycles at the same conditions.

Azirine
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Someone on another forum had negative experiences with this cell, is it a problem for flashlight use?

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/28176-lg-m50lt-why-do-euc-cos-k...

BlueSwordM
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No, it’s not really a problem.

It’s the usual thing.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

Azirine
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Pajda cz wrote:
I do not have datasheet for LG M50 “L” line, only for older M50 model and then for M50T. The info about 1000 cycles was released by some distributors and of course LG has to compare the offer with the competition, where for example the original Samsung 50E model was also rated for 500 cycles only, but the newer 50G version already has 1000 cycles in its datasheet.

Would you recommend M50LT or 50G?

Pajda cz
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Azirine wrote:
Pajda cz wrote:
I do not have datasheet for LG M50 “L” line, only for older M50 model and then for M50T. The info about 1000 cycles was released by some distributors and of course LG has to compare the offer with the competition, where for example the original Samsung 50E model was also rated for 500 cycles only, but the newer 50G version already has 1000 cycles in its datasheet.

Would you recommend M50LT or 50G?

These two cells have very similar properties. M50LT is slightly better in cycle life at 0.5C standard charge rate. 50G only beat M50LT at higher charging rate up to 1C continuous. You can also check that 50G is quite popular in automotive as Lucid Air https://youtu.be/Ga0qMqUG2×4?t=547 (9:10 time) and I think Rivian used them as well. In general it can be said that almost all HE cells in 21700 format are good i.e. with the exception of Panasonic, which cycle life is still significantly worse when cycled at high DoD or continuous fast charge rate. So I would choose according to the current price.

Btw. In near future, there will be added M58T, 48X nad 50G to the chart.

Azirine
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Funtastic wrote:
Mooch reviewed these and mentioned the following

“The top contact metal is also thinner than most cells and the “legs” coming down from it are narrow so I recommend not using this cell where there is a lot of pressure on the top contact.”

I’m guessing that these will be no good for flashlights, unless you add a solder blob or a button to reinforce it. Dropping the flashlight has a very high chance of denting it in.

Does anyone have experience of the M50LT denting (or not denting) in flashlights?

leggera16
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I have one in a e07 fireflies flashlight. The top has been dented in as far as it can go. Its resting directly on the vent area. I have to add a magnet to charge it as it won’t make contact now.

If your torch has a strong spring or you occasionally drop it id add a 2mm magnet or something before using it.

Never had this happen before. Did someone say they have bottom vents too. Is it still ok to use?

This torch has a coil spring at each end so has concentrated some force onto the center of the thinner wider contact.

https://ibb.co/JryLzcQ

Also some guys on the unicycle forums have claimed they have been causing fires once warmed up as the amp rating halves over 50 degrees.

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/28176-lg-m50lt-why-do-euc-cos-k...