My sister and niece got ran off the road and our car got wrecked

Off-topic Chatter
14

What a scare…I’m glad they’re both ok! Sorry about the vehicle damage and the whole thing. I know that has to be upsetting and angering and worrisome altogether.

Unless you want to press for some kind of charges against him and unless/until the police ask for your video footage, I’d keep it under wraps and share that with your insurance company instead. Aside from citations it’ll be the insurance companies that hash all of this out, and if they need to subrogate and figure it out in court, then that may be where your video has the most value. From the sound of things it’s plausible that it will not be a 100% fault on one party. I would try to work hard with your insurance company to have them pressure the other guy’s insurance to make you whole, not just dole out a valuation amount. This depends on a lot of things but if things look strongly in your favor then sometimes the other company will pay considerably more just to avoid the expense of court proceedings. It all becomes very businesslike and matter of fact to them, sadly, so you may need to speak up often and perhaps loudly.

Also, unless there’s a really good existing reason to pursue a restraining order, I don’t think I’d recommend that…often has the chance to make things much worse. But if there is good reason then yes, absolutely go do that. And given the circumstances and proximity of your residences, asking for an emergency order might be worthwhile (or whatever California may call that procedure…basically granting the restriction immediately until the normal hearing/judge’s decision can be held).

EDIT: to add…you probably don’t need to get your own attorney right now. Wait until things play out with insurance to see where things stand. At that point if there’s reason to pursue him civilly then get a couple of free consultations with attorneys. If there is any criminal interest bigger than a citation for him then that won’t be in your hands anyway. If you want to, you could contact a Legal Aid office to see if someone can walk you through the probabilities and flow chart of what’s going on. If you don’t have LA or something similar then call up the state or county bar association and they can likely direct you somewhere that will help and who isn’t necessarily looking to be hired by you.

15

Hey RC, I'm sorry to hear the bad news. I hope your sister and niece don't face any worse medical complications than what they are already facing.

Does your sister understand the importance of cycling an ice pack on and off her swollen hand? I am not a doctor, so I am not qualified to give medical advice. With that said, the advice that has often been given to me is to apply ice for 15 or 20 minutes, followed by the same amount of off time. Repeat many times, starting as soon as possible following the injury.

I have also heard that applying heat during the off times can be good, so you are cycling heat and ice, but the first and last cycles should be ice. Do the whole process two or three times a day.

You can make an ice pack by filling a plastic freezer bag two-thirds with water and one-third with isopropyl alcohol. Toss it in the freezer, and it won't freeze into a solid block of ice. When I do this, I double-bag the ice-pack, just in case I get a leak.

If your doctor agrees, taking a maximum dosage of Ibuprofen for a couple of days may also be appropriate. That's 600 mg three or four times daily. 2400 mg.is the maximum daily dose.

Ice and Ibuprofen are good ways to reduce inflammation and swelling.

The other thing she should do is keep the arm elevated, at the same height as her heart. This makes it easy for blood to flow in and out of her hand. So lying in bed qualifies.When seated, she should rest her arm on a table if possible. Stack up some pillows, if that helps.

Once again, it is important not to delay. She needs to start elevating her arm now, not tomorrow.

Good luck with this.

16

DO NOT PUT IT ON YOUTUBE.

You need to adopt a defensive posture here, do nothing their lawyer can use against you (everything you say and do will be used against you), no public statements, no statements to their lawyer and find a lawyer with an excellent reputation and excellent references to represent your family’s interests. Get references and call them.

Make no statements, admit nothing and make multiple copies of the vid and put the original memory card in a very safe place. Don’t let anyone have it unless your lawyer okays it.

Lock down everyone’s facebook account and put up no public updates and if feasible stop using all social media.

Also i’m glad to hear everyone is okay.

17

Here is some pertinent legal advice regarding dashcams.

The gist of it is that your recording is now evidence. Both the police and the other driver are aware that it exists. Altering it or deleting is a big no-no. Doing so can create an assumption on the part of the court that you are hiding something, and a jury may be so instructed.

I am confused a little bit about the passing-on-the-right thing. You wrote:

The road is one lane each way, and a little bit later, the Ford started driving on the wrong side of the road.

My sister drove on the correct side of the road and tried to pass them again.

The driver of the Ford swerved towards our car again, hit our car, ran our car off the road, and my sister lost control of the vehicle.

When the Ford was in the opposing lane will a court decide that continuing in your lane constitutes "passing on the right?"

Beats me.

18

This offence was IMO a crime. All that happend was a result from trying to escape from the situation. I’d say no matter what’s been said in the car, things like this lead to reactions where traffic rules are of secondary interest, because the mind is put into an exceptional state. Your relatives felt threatened, therefore acted irrationally.

Edit: Follow Borts advice and keep everything under closure.

19

Regarding that provision in the law about passing. Yes it looks like your sister may have committed a moving violation by passing on the right.

However, the other driver committed what appears to be me to be a much bigger violation by then crashing into your sister’s car and running her off the road. Her moving violation does not absolve him of responsibility for causing the crash. Even before the crash, he was also committing a moving violation by driving on the wrong side of the road.

I also haven’t heard anything about the other driver having an immediate need to move back into the right lane. There isn’t any mention of a semi-truck coming around the corner the other direction leaving the other driver no choice.

The video is important. Without it, the police do not believe your sister’s story and they might her entirely at fault. If that happens, it could have serious consequences for her insurance. She might even lose her license for reckless driving. Maybe even face criminal charges.

It also sounds like the other driver gave a much different story about what happened to the police than your sister. If the stories matched, the police would not have disbelieved her. It’s probably better to show the video to police to bolster her credibility and destroy the credibility of the other party. The police already know about the video and are expecting it.

If your sister sues the other driver for damages, the court would be in a position of determining who is at fault. Fault in these types of cases isn’t all-or-nothing. The court could decide your sister is 10% at fault for trying to pass, but the other driver is 90% at fault for ramming her and causing a crash. The result would be a win for your sister as she would likely still get a considerable damage award.

A judge or jury could even decide your sister’s passing on the right was not a cause of the crash. After all, the other driver rammed your sister when nothing forced him to do so. If he wanted to return to the correct lane, he could just have pressed the brakes and then moved behind her. In that case, a court would probably find him 100% at fault.

It is good advice for your sister to contact her insurance company immediately. Doing so might be required under the terms of her insurance. They also have their own attorneys and can advise her on what to do next.

Given that your sister may have committed a moving violation at the time of the crash, it is also good advice to consult with a criminal defense attorney immediately. Just in case.

Regarding a restraining order: If your sister wants a restraining order, she can apply for a Civil Harassment Restraining Order in the civil division of the Superior Court. If the police or DA presses charges against the other driver, the criminal court might issue its own restraining order (Emergency Protective Order).

20

It sounds like your sister was at fault, overtaking on the right is not legal.

In America a lot of people are driving around hopped up on prescription pills which affect their reactions and judgement. This could apply to both parties in your story.

Thankfully nobody was killed.

21

Thanks for the advice everyone!

I'll be careful what I say to the Highway Patrol later on today when they come by to get a copy of the dashcam video.

My sister has been using ice on her left hand.

She took some nursing classes in the past and knows how to deal with her messed up hand.

We'll see how much at fault each party is, but I think the dashcam video is pretty one-sided in my sister's favor.

Based on the video, the other party intentionally ran my sister and niece off the road.

She may be at partial fault, but I think the other party is mostly (or completely) at fault.

I won't upload the video.

If we get a lawyer, we will be sending the video to them and seeing what they have to say.

I think a restraining order is an excellent idea considering the attempted homicide and child endangerment, but we'll see what our potential lawyer will say.

The other party may escalate after the restraining order, but that's just how life is.

22

By the way, my sister stayed in her correct one lane the second time she tried to pass the other party.

The other party was in the wrong lane going the wrong way.

So, when she tried to pass him the second time, she just went straight until the other party intentionally ran her off the road.

She didn't actually go the the right, the other party went to the left initially, and then to the right to run her off the road.

I apologize for not being clear earlier, which led to the confusion.

23

I have to ask, what was the urgency in passing? Was the other driver deliberately driving slowly to hold her back? Was your sister tailgating? No excuse for him to run her off the road no matter what but what led up to it may come into play.

24

The other driver was deliberately driving slow.

My sister is an excellent driver, but she has a tendency to pass slow drivers, as many drivers around here do.

If she wouldn't have tried to pass the other driver, she'd probably be stuck behind him for quite a while.

The roads in our community are all one lane each way (or sometimes one lane total), and there's only one way out of our community.

25

With everyone carrying firearms today it is best to just back off but I know that advice doesn’t help now. My guess is there are going to be multiple citations given with his being much more serious.

26

I think next time my sister encounters someone driving somewhat crazily, she'll back off.

She's smart enough to learn from her mistakes, although I think she handled the incident very well compared to the other party.

She cannot see into the future.

27

Lawyer up, press criminal charges, sue the F out of them, after win carry through with garnishing of wages, liens etc.

28

This is all wrong, you should not be interacting with the Police, without a lawyer. You should not be posting in this thread.

Get a Lawyer. As soon as you do that, the Police are obligated to stop contacting you directly. And your lawyer will advise you to stop posting in this thread or anywhere else.

Very sorry for your sister and Niece being injured, I hope they heal well.

GET A LAWYER!

29

There’s a very helpful lecture on Youtube that I’ll link later if I can find again. It aligns with what jon_slider is recommending. One of the presenters is a lawyer and the other is a police officer IIRC. The short version is that you should never EVER talk to the cops about an infraction even if you know for 100% certain that you did not commit any wrongdoing. You should also never admit to anything since even the smallest thing phrased the wrong way can hurt you in court.

Edit: I think the video is just called, “Don’t Talk to the Police.” The posting channel is Regent University School of Law

30
31

In the words of Yoda…“Yes!, to John_slider you listen!” At this point you are an uninvolved party who has become involved so it is best to stay as incognito as possible. As one who works with insurance companies all way, I will tell you that insurance companies are bean-counting miser penny pinchers who do all they can to pay the least amount t while nearly always finding you at fault until they finish their investigation then you may be exonerated. Your sister needs an attorney since there may be possible criminal al charges. Hunker down and be prepared for a long legal procession…

32

I disagree.

At the time his sister passed the other vehicle, the other driver was also committing a moving violation: He was driving on the wrong side of the road.

Also, why did the crash occur? It occurred because the other driver intentionally drove into his sister. There’s no mention of the other driver being forced to do that (such as an incoming traffic coming from the opposite direction). From the fact pattern presented, the other driver simply chose to ram his sister off the road in an unprovoked attack. Just the fact that she may have been performing an illegal pass at the time does not absolve him of fault.

If I were the judge I would find the other driver 100% at fault. That said, it is possible that his sister might have some minor criminal liability for illegal passing. I’m not sure what her liability could be… probably just a traffic citation (traffic ticket). While his could be misdemeanor and felony charges for reckless driving, assault and battery, child endangerment, even attempted murder.

That said, Jon_Slider does have the best advice: Do it right by consulting an attorney asap.

33

After hearing your description, I am of the opinion that if the speed limit was not broken by your sister, the ford pickup was attempting to detain her progress. I dont believe anybody should have to “back off” or “back down” when someone tries to restict your forward movement with agressive tactics. To me, doing so is the same as trying to restrict ones retreat, which is akin to kidnapping or unlawful detainment. When trying to flee or avoid aggressive behavior, the direction of travel should not matter- and in the case of road rage on a two lane road, it can be more dangerous, for a number of reasons, to try to turn around than to continue in the same direction of travel. To me, after a certain amount of aggresion, it becomes about surviving rather than traffic law minutiae.

The video may (or may mot) show there was an obvious threat from the other party. One can’t be expected to not attempt to go around/bypass any other dangerous obstscle in the road such as a tree, a car on fire, or an overly agressive driver intent on blocking your lawful movement, in order to continue to your desired destination.

One does not give up their freedom to move about at will just because another driver decides to restrict it with force or aggresion.

Just my 2 cents, which may only be 1.5 at this point.