Do you have some suggestions for the new vapcell charger?

[pho]

A charger with 4 point measurement for the IR and a storage mode (3.7V). Battery size from 16340 to 26800. Cell chemistry: Li-Ion, Ni-MH, NiCd and LiFePO4.

[raccoon]

@pho

A charger with 4 point measurement for the IR and a storage mode (3.7V). Battery size from 16340 to 26800. Cell chemistry: Li-Ion, Ni-MH, NiCd and LiFePO4.

Ooh...

Great ideas!

[headband]

@vapcell Dennis

@TimMc

@vapcell Dennis

Need 4*2a or 4*1.5a, 4*1a discharge?

Max 4*1.5A discharge is probably good for cells that we use for flashlights.

If the charger supported protected 26800 cells, that would make it easier to try to verify the capacity.

If there are 26800 batteries with protective plates on the market, the length is expected to be 86mm，even more

If this charger is compatible with 16340, the spring is a great challenge and needs to be adjusted

If only 18650-26900 is charged, the design is very simple

Do you think it should be compatible with small batteries?

A quad charger that had 2 bays 26800 capable and 2 that were 16340 capable would be cool.

[vapcell_Dennis]

@TimMc

@vapcell Dennis

Do you think it should be compatible with small batteries?

Yes, support for small cells like 10440 with a 250mA charging current or less is nice.

Protected 26800 probably isn’t necessary. I mentioned it to try to cover all unprotected 26800 lengths.

Dimples on the negative terminal and a protruding positive terminal (e.g. S4+) make it possible to charge cells with a recessed positive terminal. Film around a 10440 cell may not allow the negative end to touch a flat negative terminal.

Perhaps a 4-slot charger could be designed for up to 18650, and a larger 4-slot charger could be designed for 18650 to 26900.

The positive and negative terminals of s4+ charger are designed to better contact the battery

Can this design be continued in the future, or should it be improved? To fit more battery sizes

[vapcell_Dennis]

@Bort

Have a 4V/80% charge option for those who want to charge batteries to 80% so their batteries will live longer before wearing out from age.

Is this a storage function or something else

[raccoon]

@vapcell Dennis

@Bort

Have a 4V/80% charge option for those who want to charge batteries to 80% so their batteries will live longer before wearing out from age.

Is this a storage function or something else

If a Li-Ion cell is charged to about 80%, then the cell will last longer.

When not using a Li-Ion cell for a while, it can better if it's charged to about 80% for storage.

I'm sure Bort can explain it better than I can, though.

[vapcell_Dennis]

@Kardel

My personal opinion is that supporting 18650-26800 is perfectly fine. There are plenty of other chargers suitable for smaller sizes but very few for larger sizes.

I think one mistake manufacturers make is that if the charger doesn’t support smaller sizes that it is suddenly going to have no market? Personally I like longer chargers as it makes getting 18650/21700 in and out of the charger easier.

I would like to see the following;

• 2 or 4 bay charger
• 3A charging per slot
• USB-C PD for power input*
• 18650 - 26800 support (I would say 65mm - ~90mm total length supported)
• Storage mode (Charges or discharges to ~3.7V)
• Capacity testing (1A discharge is fine for me)
• Manually adjustable charging current (Up to 3A)

*I am not overly familiar with the limitations of USB-PD in terms of power delivery but I don’t see why it wouldn’t deliver enough power. Personally I would take a slight charging hit (Maybe a max of 3A x 2 slots or 2A x 4) in order to have USB-PD input.

**I would say if you could include 14500 size batteries that would also help your market. They’re a lot longer than 16340 and I don’t think would require too much additional modification. I would have a lower minimum charging current if supporting 14500 batteries.

By eliminating shorter batteries you can cut costs of manufacturing/R&D as you have said.

Only other feature I can think of that would be nice is if it also had USB output (Either through the same port or another port), but this isn’t a deal breaker.

As TimMC said above the form factor is slowly becoming more common but availability is definitely not the best. I purchased a bulk quantity to sell into my small local market which has worked well and one of the most common question is “Which charger” to which I reply XTAR SC1 Plus as it’s essentially the only good one on the market.

Thank you for your suggestion. This kind of battery is more suitable for fast charging of high current batteries instead of small batteries

The higher power of usb-pd is used in the charger. It is expected that there will be some difficulties, mainly in terms of cost, protocol and current distribution

[Helios_azimuth]

18650 to 26800 works for me. I have plenty of chargers for smaller batteries. I only charge one or two batteries at a time, but a four slot with slot 1 & 4 for 26800 would work too. Storage voltage and 4.0v options would be nice, but not required for me. I can just check the voltage every now and then, lol. I do not like chargers that get really hot. High quality with whatever extras you think will sell best. Thanks for asking.

[TimMc]

@vapcell Dennis

Can this design be continued in the future, or should it be improved? To fit more battery sizes

It could be improved by making the top part of the positive terminal a bit bigger, and by adding a small nipple on that big bit so that flat top 10440 and 14500 cells easily fit.

I managed to short a flat top 14500 cell in my S4+ charger and it left a burn mark on the insulation ring.

[Kardel]

@vapcell Dennis

Thank you for your suggestion. This kind of battery is more suitable for fast charging of high current batteries instead of small batteries

The higher power of usb-pd is used in the charger. It is expected that there will be some difficulties, mainly in terms of cost, protocol and current distribution

I agree that keeping a standard barrel plug (Or whatever is currently used) would be cheaper but I would like to see consolidation of power input ports from manufacturers across industries.

It’s not a deal breaker for me though, just something that’s nice to have. Ultimately you have to decide from a business perspective whether it’s worth pursuing.

[vapcell_Dennis]

@daffyh67

I currently own and use the S4+ daily it’s a great charger all round.
Some folks dont like the full charge bell sound, personally i dont mind it but it isn’t loud enough.
I have some AB cells with USB C on them and i hate them, dont quite fit the S4+, 26800 capability would allow charging any 21700 battery.
I’ll second TimMc request for a storage mode.
Slightly stronger springs as well even though the current ones are ok a bit more tension will help secure smaller cells a bit better eg. 10440/14500.

Thank you for your support and advice

We will try our best to debug the charger so that the batteries of all sizes are in good contact

[vapcell_Dennis]

@djozz

The charger that I would use a lot is one that analyses all li-ion cells that are inserted correctly, and charges them correctly. So also smaller cells and old cells are analysed and charged correctly. At the same time it must have a good display with as much information as possible simultaneously displayed for all slots (so no toggle-button clicks needed).

It happens too often that I have to insert a cell several times before a charger picks it up correctly. Or the charger declares a half-full cell as full all of a sudden. And then I take it out and insert again and the charger starts charging correctly again. This happened with Soshine chargers, Liitokala chargers and Xtar chargers.

It is nice if the charger is compact and can be USB-C powered. A two-slot charger is what I use most. For me if it charges just li-ion cells that is fine.

Several charge currents are nice, and the option to stop at 80% charged is nice, but these are secondary wishes, the first is that it charges well.

Thanks

80% power. Do you mean that the storage function sets 80 power?

Or do you stop charging when charging to about 4.0V in normal use?

[djozz]

I usually charge to full, but since 90% of my batteries are in storage at most times and not in actual use, they have less lifetime because they are stored full. Charging to 80% of energy (that is 4.0V?) will make them both suitable for storage and for normal use.

Come to think of it, my ideal setting would be 90% instead of 80, as a compromise between usability and battery lifetime. Maybe a charger could have user settings for 70, 80, and 90 ?

[vapcell_Dennis]

@djozz

I usually charge to full, but since 90% of my batteries are in storage at most times and not in actual use, they have less lifetime because they are stored full. Charging to 80% of energy (that is 4.0V?) will make them both suitable for storage and for normal use.

Come to think of it, my ideal setting would be 90% instead of 80, as a compromise between usability and battery lifetime. Maybe a charger could have user settings for 70, 80, and 90 ?

Do you mean that the service life when I charge to 4.20V is much shorter than that when I charge to 80-90%? If not, there is no meaning. It is expected that the new charger will increase the storage function to 3.70v

If you need such a program, you need a very high-end charger to appear

It is equivalent to adjusting different charging voltages

[vapcell_Dennis]

@YuvalS

It will be nice if you can add some identification to your cell (barcode/QR/RFID/etc) and a reader to the charger so we can have history of our cells (num of cycles, capacity, etc.)

Very advanced technology, seems not to have appeared in other chargers?

Thank you for your great advice

[vapcell_Dennis]

@undefined

Would it be possible to simply include a couple of spacers for shorter batteries that way the springs only need to support 18650 - 26800?

I’m 100% in favor of the feature list that @Kardel posted:

2 or 4 bay charger
3A charging per slot
USB-C PD for power input*
18650 – 26800 support (I would say 65mm – ~90mm total length supported)
Storage mode (Charges or discharges to ~3.7V)
Capacity testing (1A discharge is fine for me)
Manually adjustable charging current (Up to 3A)

Do you have any pictures to illustrate what auxiliary accessories can charge a small battery?

thank you

[djozz]

I found this on batteryuniversity.com. I'm not sure how old this specific data is (which generation of batteries is used to generate these numbers?) but the article had its last update in nov 2021. It shows that for maximum service life you should charge to 3.95V (so not 3.7V as I always thought), but changing from 4.2V to 4.05V already more than doubles the service life of the battery.

CHARGE LEVEL* (V/CELL)	DISCHARGE CYCLES	AVAILABLE STORED ENERGY **
[4.30]	[150–250]	[110–115%]
4.25	200–350	105–110%
4.20	300–500	100%
4.15	400–700	90–95%
4.10	600–1,000	85–90%
4.05	850–1,500	80–85%
4.00	1,200–2,000	70–75%
3.90	2,400–4,000	60–65%
3.80	See note	35–40%
3.70	See note	30% and less

Table 4: Discharge cycles and capacity as a function of charge voltage limit

[RapidLux]

For me, support for small cells is irrelevant, and not needed.

[pcunite]

Termination voltage is a requirement. I want to charge my batteries to 4.1V not all the way to 4.2. So, a configurable termination voltage. Note this is for a battery that is going to be used soon and is a different concept from storage voltage.

[Sirstinky]

Some good suggestions. I really like the S4+, but it could use some improvements (don’t make it a MC3000!). BlueswordIM on here has some great ideas for a charger…

Support for 26800 batteries with charge rates up to 4-5 amps for the 6000 and 6800 mAh cells

Support for charge rates under 250 mA, like 100 to 150

Support for Hv li-ion 4.35 v and lifeP04

Storage mode at 3.6 to 3.7 volts

More accurate iR measurement…mine is about 50% higher than advertised (my Zanflare C4 charger does a lot better)

Make a separate display for each slot maybe? Ine that has all of the parameters: charge/discharge current, accumulated/discharge capacity, volts(realtime), iR

Manually selectable delta V for NiMH maybe? Some like that feature

Discharge current up to 1.5 A across all bays (fan cooling)

Keep the standard power input with the SMPS and 5.5x2.1mm connector. It’s lowering cost and works fine…don’t see a need for a $50 type C adapter.