http://en.latticepower.com/NewsView.aspx?id=108
DC max current : 1400mA
Pulsed max current : 2000mA
Same as E21A.
I think somebody mentioned ~7A with a H10, so higher than the max pulsed current. And yeah of course with those LEDs without neutral pad the quality of the dielectric is very important.
Ah that would do it.
In retrospect, this light probably would have been better off with a boost driver that could run on both AA and 14500. The lower max output of that driver compared to a FET would have protected the LEDs from burning out.
I think from now on I’ll run this TS10 and future ones on weaker cells. Perhaps Vapcell L10.
you are the second person to kill a CSP/E21a by using an H10
.
“With my custom hex and a fully charged Vapcell H10, ”it drew around 5A on turbo”:https://www.reddit.com/user/zumlin/”
I would definitely use a 3A cell, not a 10A cell
Or just a constant current circuit, set to 4A or 5A max current, without direct drive. Much cheaper and smaller than a boost driver and no issues getting parts etc... I'm honestly disappointed it has 7135 + FET.
Yup… TurboItis is a very dangerous condition. In combination w a 10A battery, the results can be Terminal.
I suggest setting the ceilings to 100/150, and disable Turbo.
I also suggest using the battery that Wurkkos sells, NOT an H10.
Just to let anyone know that Terry has been awesome in solving this
@Wurkkos, I believe the driver design should be changed entirely.for a fully regulated linear driver.
It would be either at 3/4A, but it would be nice.
This is what I would like to see!
I prefer the AA capability to max output (as long as it has good output on 14500 and turbo).
I would be OK with no AUX LEDs when running on AA.
FB
how many lumens do you consider “good output”?
considering how people are killing their TS10 LEDs with H10 batteries… And considering that Turbo steps down immediately due to thermal regulation, what benefit do you seek from Turbo?
imo, Turbo is just for marketing claims… the actual useful output, that is sustainable, is about 300 Lumens for a light this size, more than enough imo.
Consider that HDS sets max output to 200 lumens, on a 16340 light that weighs more than double the TS10. iow, the HDS has more thermal mass, yet limits output to 20% of the Turbo on the TS10. We dont hear of HDS lights overheating, nor burning out the LED.
Running an H10 in mine. No issue. Turbo seems to last as I want to hold onto it.
But Maybe we shouldn’t be comparing a luxury 300 dollar show off to a 20$ light that while might have some issues on it’s first run is still a kick ass little light.
Something like the SP10 Pro driver.
That should give somewhere around 1000 on turbo with a triple LED - still a lot of output in a small host.
This also protects the LEDs enough when using high current batteries.
Supports AA batts with enough lumens for most tasks.
Anduril makes it easy to turn down max for those that don’t like the thermal step down happening so quickly.
If the TS10 had this driver (with aux LED when using 14500), I would have already purchased more than 1. As it is now, I’m resisting… barely.
FB
I really dont understand the emphasis on 1000 lumens
here is a runtime chart on the SP10 Pro… it does not sustain Turbo… Thermal regulation drops output to less than 200 lumens. And that is with just One LED. If there are Three LEDs, the Total heat will be even greater. (Im not talking about the theoretical lower power Per LED… Im talking Total power and Total Heat)
pic by gchart, is a link to more info
here is another 1000+ lumen light, the FWAA:
.
pic is a link to zeroair review source
note thermal regulation limits output to less than 300 lumens
From what I have seen, placing my lights on my light meter, Turbo is not sustainable, it quickly falls to sustainable levels.
I am the Anti-Turbo.
imo Turbo is bad because:
People without light meters, who think they are using Turbo, dont realize they are not actually using Turbo output, and are in fact experiencing step downs to Sustainable Output.
I am the Sustainable Output Evangelist.
Sustainable Output is the HighWay to Heaven
Turbo is the road to Perdition… LOL
I pointed that out ages ago with my GTmicro. No visual difference between my H10 and EBL cheapies, at least not after swapping cells in the same light. Two lights and a side-by-side, and you might notice some difference, but is it worth cooking the LED for a relatively insignificant boost in brightness? Hell, while waiting for my EBL to charge, I dropped in a LFP cell, and it was bright enough for useful work, even at 3.2V (ie, near the bottom of a Li-ion’s range).
And with so little thermal handling, hitting the peak then being on the downward side of the parabola is too easy. You’d be generating more heat than light anyway.
I really don’t understand the anti-turbo view.
BTW, I knew I was taking the bait with my response. I’ve read a lot of your posts disliking the unsustainable turbo levels in many new lights.
These are not 1-mode lights. You can set it to lower output to limit the step down. You can use anduril to adjust max output and temperature.
But, those that want a short burst of high output can have that also. As long as there is working thermal regulation, what does it hurt?
And about the total heat produced… it only depends on total power. Doesn’t matter if it is 1 emitter or 3. 3 LEDs should be more efficient so that same power should equal more output (depends on specific LEDs used). Or, the same output could be produced with less power. I know these are small emitters and I didn’t bother to look up the output vs current, so lets just say the are close to one larger 3535 emitter.
I should have specified a “claimed” 1000 lumens light. They currently claim 1400 lumens, so roughly 70% of the output they have now. This is still a lot of light in a small package and would lower the output enough to protect the emitters. The SP10 pro claims 900 lumens and that is where I came up with 1000, figuring 3 emitters would be a little more efficient (and marketing will like the 1000 number). It looks like the SP10 pro does more like ~700 peak. Still more than plenty for this small host and battery. I’d be happy with that limit also.
Output sells. It looks like Wurkkos is pushing these little emitters too hard if we are seeing emitter failures, but I’m not going to suggest to Wurkkos to make a 200 lumen light just so it doesn’t step down.
Personally, I would pick a regulated 500 lumens if it was me, but that would still need a thermal step down, and I’m fine with that (no timed step down please).
I like my FET drive lights also, but they are not my choice in these small hosts.
FB
I thought I was reassured that a higher power cell wont hurt a flashlight?
That a light will only draw as much current as it needs?
@CRC2, you now figured out why many people dislike direct drive driver lights.
Essentially, a direct drive mode directly connects the cell to the LEDs, which means that the current is only limited by the highest resistance point of the circuit. With circuit that has a low enough resistance and subpar thermal resistance, this can become a problem.
Regulated drivers don’t have this issue unless you massively overspec the driver for the LED combo.
That’s why I will not be buying this light until it comes with a 3-4A regulated driver.
Having to literally choose cells to not kill lights is just super bad.
…This is what i was trying to understand from the begining…
“how to match a cell to a light?”
But kept being told not to worry and just stick a cell in a light and use it…
I dont know what cells I can stick in what lights now…
I feel unsafe again.
God dammit.
@CRC2 Don’t worry.
Here’s how to solve your issue:
- Do not buy lights with any kind of unregulated driving modes.
- That means you only buy lights with regulated drivers now(what I do honestly, lower brightness with the battery charge level has gotten annoying for me).
On my part, I will not buy a TS10 until it gets a fully regulated driver with no turbo.
Too late. I already bought all the flashlights I want/need. I dont really know what kind of driver any of them use…
Im just calling it quits for real this time. Thanks for all the help, but I need more than ya’ll can offer.
Bye.
Before we start talking cells it might be helpful to know why these emitters failed. I mean if it’s possible that there are bad reflows then that’s important to determine. If it’s too much current for an emitter without a heat sink on the pad or just too much current for this particular type/model of emitter…that’s different.
CRC most of our usual emitters won’t do this until you really go super hot rod with a light design. FET drivers that let all the juice flow will usually get hot but with healthy cells and our usual circuit designs there’s nothing to worry about. This light is a little different with the emitter choice. And again, we don’t seem to know any more at this moment about exactly why at least two light have failed.