Why Batteries Function Better with Their Dedicated Chargers?

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killswitch
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Why Batteries Function Better with Their Dedicated Chargers?

Hello. Have been hearing that for better charge and battery longevity batteries should be charged with their respective chargers i.e. eneloops with eneloop charger, Powerex with MAHA charger etc.

What about those complex chargers that allow for selective charging, draining, monitoring, cycling and refreshing? I have see those from MAHA, BT, LaCrosse. Can these chargers be optimal for popular brands rechargeable NiMH batteries sold today?

I have Amazon Basics, white eneloops, older black Sanyos, Duracells. I have been using Camelion cheap 4-channel charger to charge them. Can I just buy one of aforementioned chargers to have “best of both worlds” and not buy charger for every brand of batteries?

fogofwar
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They don’t.

gravelmonkey
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Can you buy a decent charger for all brands of regular NiMh cells? Yes.

HKJ has reviewed many chargers, hopefully the table will help you decide which to buy.

zoulas
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Forget about the chargers that come with the batteries you buy. Get a good charger and that will charge all your batteries very well.

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..Although you may have a good charger that came with your batteries that will work with them all. The advice to peruse the HJK site is excellent. Panasonic, for instance, who sells chargers with their eneloops, has both excellent and not so excellent chargers tested on his site. You can sort by feature simply by clicking the heading you want to sort by.

zoulas
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Yes the charger that comes with the batteries is for beginners that don’t have any charger and need to charge the batteries they are purchasing. If you buy Eneloop’s for example, get the ones w/o the charger and then get a good charger. I have found the Miboxer to be excellent but there are many to choose from.

flydiver
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Old men’s tale. Mostly BS, like a lot of them.

Research the advice you’ve been given. Check out the link to battery charger reviews.

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raccoon city
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flydiver wrote:

Old men's tale. Mostly BS, like a lot of them.

Yup!  :THUMBS-UP:

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I’d say just the opposite. Get a good quality charger and it’ll treat a cell better than an afterthought of a come-with charger that’s “free” with the cells.

Lotta cheep-cheep-cheep leetle cheeken chargers are just trickle-chargers that can slowly fry a cell’s innards.

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fogofwar wrote:
They don’t.

^^^^ This
Johnny_Bravo
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A good charger and good cells should work, it´s the combination. And I´m not sure whether most of these manufacturers really manufacture chargers and cells or just buy from another and lable it

I have chargers which have problems with a lot of cells and (cheap) cells which cause problems in every charger.

killswitch
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gravelmonkey wrote:
HKJ has reviewed many chargers, hopefully the table will help you decide which to buy.

Thanks. Looks like years of work went into making that list.

flydiver wrote:
Old men’s tale. Mostly BS, like a lot of them.

Research the advice you’ve been given. Check out the link to battery charger reviews.

There was a theory someone told me decade ago that manufacturers of chargers use default algorithm that is not optimal causing batteries to wear out sooner. Don’t know if it is a part of collusion for planned obsolescence.

fogofwar
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The “algorithm” is typically some fixed current like 1A and then trickle charge to full. More advanced chargers can track the battery temperature to make sure it doesn’t go above some value (like 40C). You don’t need anything more fancy than that.

If you want to just minimize the wear of your battery, then charge at something like 0.1A but it will take forever. Most people will never get close to the cycle life of their battery for usage in flashlights so I wouldn’t worry about it.

flydiver
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flydiver wrote:
Old men’s tale. Mostly BS, like a lot of them.

There was a theory someone told me decade ago…

Sounds kinda like one of those ‘old men’s tales’, eh? Facepalm
How the hell did they know? What was their information source? Did they do ANYTHING to check it out?
Maybe women gossip, but men just bullshit themselves a lot. I think it’s the sapiens equivalent of chest thumping.

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wle
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one thing about li ion cells is, they should only be charged up to about C/3 or so, in the initial constant current phase

any more and you may overvoltage the cell before it quits charging

any less and the charge takes a long time

using the charger that came with the battery or the light, may be already set to that charge rate

(he says optimistically – at least it is possible)

if you get to pick charge rates, you might pick the wrong one

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I charge just about everything (You name the cell & chemistry) with Nitecore chargers. Been doing it for about a decade and never had an issue. I don’t buy cells that come with a charger or cells with built-in charging capabilities. Hopefully that gives you some insight to others experiences.

If you have a Saltytri you want to unload, hit me up. If you don’t know what that is, google it.

killswitch
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wle wrote:
one thing about li ion cells is, they should only be charged up to about C/3 or so, in the initial constant current phase

any more and you may overvoltage the cell before it quits charging any less and the charge takes a long time

What is C/3 and does this extend to other lithium cells like those in laptops and phones?

Ricflair wrote:
I don’t buy cells that come with a charger or cells with built-in charging capabilities. Hopefully that gives you some insight to others experiences.

Lithium ions you refer to? I never heard of these kind of batteries. Only know that 18650 have built-in overcharging protection.

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killswitch wrote:
wle wrote:
one thing about li ion cells is, they should only be charged up to about C/3 or so, in the initial constant current phase

any more and you may overvoltage the cell before it quits charging any less and the charge takes a long time

What is C/3 and does this extend to other lithium cells like those in laptops and phones?

Ricflair wrote:
I don’t buy cells that come with a charger or cells with built-in charging capabilities. Hopefully that gives you some insight to others experiences.

Lithium ions you refer to? I never heard of these kind of batteries. Only know that 18650 have built-in overcharging protection.

They’re saying Capacity divided by three = charge rate. So a hypothetical 3000mAh li-ion cell should have an initial charge rate (the setting you put the charger on) of 1000ma.

Second point is one I also agree with, often the clamshell packages of cells and charger you buy in stores includes a cheap charger which isn’t very good.

killswitch
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gravelmonkey wrote:
They’re saying Capacity divided by three = charge rate. So a hypothetical 3000mAh li-ion cell should have an initial charge rate (the setting you put the charger on) of 1000ma.

I thought you meant charging battery to 1000mAh capacity out of its 3000mAh capacity initially. So it’s charge rate 1000mAh and not maximum charged capacity? I know in cellphones its the opposite. They are charged at normal rate but slow down after around 90%.

Can even be charged using quick charge technology that is so much marketed these days but in itself introduces heat that affects battery longevity.

Do Nitecore, LaCrosse and BT chargers detect lithium battery automatically and set C/3 preset or I set it manually?

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18650 don’t ‘automatically’ have built-in overcharging protection. It has to be added after the raw cell or pack is made.

Some chargers automatically set the charge rate, but not by capacity. Its usually by testing the internal resistance. There is no way it can figure out capacity in a short electronic ‘probe’.
Some people like that feature-put it in and let it go. You usually CAN over ride it if you want.
I dislike it. I want control.

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wle wrote:
one thing about li ion cells is, they should only be charged up to about C/3 or so, in the initial constant current phase

any more and you may overvoltage the cell before it quits charging


C/3 or 0.33C is certainly safe, but seems to be rather conservative. Most sources I’ve seen recommend 0.5C as a safe charging rate.
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killswitch wrote:
I know in cellphones its the opposite. They are charged at normal rate but slow down after around 90%.


All properly designed Li-Ion chargers will automatically and gradually reduce charging rate toward the end of the charge cycle when they switch from Constant Current (CC) phase to Constant Voltage (CV) phase. This is to prevent over-voltage situations.

All EVs, like Tesla, also do this. Charging up to about 80% is fairly quick. The last 20% takes a long time. Plus, it’s actually bad to charge li-ion cells all the way to 100% – high voltage puts extra stress on the cell. I typically charge my cells to about 70-80%, including my phone, unless I just really have to have 100% capacity available to me.

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killswitch wrote:
Can I just buy one … charger…
Yes

here is a charger that can do both LiIon and Eneloop
https://www.illumn.com/vapcell-s4-plus-3a-battery-analyzer-li-ion-nimh-n...

you do not have to tell it what charge rate to use (but you can), it is smart enough to charge safely, automatically.

here is a review:
https://lygte-info.dk/review/Review%20Charger%20Vapcell%20S4%2B%20fast%2...
suggest just scroll past all the test pictures, to the conclusion at the very end..

wle
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usually the ‘automatic’ ones are just slow

like 100ma default for a 2200 mah battery, would take all day

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Pete7874 wrote:
killswitch wrote:
I know in cellphones its the opposite. They are charged at normal rate but slow down after around 90%.


All properly designed Li-Ion chargers will automatically and gradually reduce charging rate toward the end of the charge cycle when they switch from Constant Current (CC) phase to Constant Voltage (CV) phase. This is to prevent over-voltage situations.

All EVs, like Tesla, also do this. Charging up to about 80% is fairly quick. The last 20% takes a long time. Plus, it’s actually bad to charge li-ion cells all the way to 100% – high voltage puts extra stress on the cell. I typically charge my cells to about 70-80%, including my phone, unless I just really have to have 100% capacity available to me.

they do have to reduce current at the end but bigger capacity cells can have more current before that phase

smaller ones may end up over-voltage if the charge is too fast

i have one tiny worn out 16340 that ends up at 4.7V on the lowest current i have, 300 ma

wle

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wle
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charging to 80% is still slow if you are way under the max current the cell COULD take

or if you do not monitor temperature

wle

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wle wrote:

i have one tiny worn out 16340 that ends up at 4.7V on the lowest current i have, 300 ma

wle


Sounds like its internal resistance is extremely high now and should be headed for a recycle bin. Smile
wle
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Pete7874 wrote:
wle wrote:

i have one tiny worn out 16340 that ends up at 4.7V on the lowest current i have, 300 ma

wle


Sounds like its internal resistance is extremely high now and should be headed for a recycle bin. Smile

yeah probably

it;s old and cheap

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….didnt know about th HJK site. https://lygte-info.dk/info/roundCellChargerIndex%20UK.html
Wished I’d known before I bought my charger a month ago Smile

….just noticed the “sticky” in the charger category.

killswitch
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gravelmonkey wrote:
Second point is one I also agree with, often the clamshell packages of cells and charger you buy in stores includes a cheap charger which isn’t very good.

This one I bought for several euros almost a decade ago but it was a standalone charger. Is it similar to chargers that come in clamshell packages with included batteries?

It takes almost half of a day to charge batteries. It acts strange sometimes because some channels have indicator that either does not turn on. Or turns on but emits a dim light. When I rotate the battery the light turns on fully. You can see it in this video: https://streamable.com/zhj7nv

killswitch
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wle wrote:
usually the ‘automatic’ ones are just slow

like 100ma default for a 2200 mah battery, would take all day

Are you referring to chargers that plug into wall’s receptacle directly? Those branded chargers for their respective batteries like Panasonic, Duracell and my Camelion? With 100mAh it would take 22 hours to charge 2200mAh battery?

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