Review: Small Sun ZY-T08 2 x 18650 (Parallel)

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Ubehebe
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>>>>try to check if your PCB is clean and pill PROPERLY screwed down.

Man, you were right. I just checked and my pill was totally wobbly and backed out like 1/16th of inch. Surprised it worked as well as it did.

Hard to get the pill in tight because mine did not have any front notches to insert hemostats to get leverage for a tight seat. I used the the two holes in the PCB to insert hemostats and get leverage, but didn’t want to turn too tight in case the PCB suddenly broke free. Still, 100 times better than when it arrived.

HD2010 still looks appreciably brighter though Sad

The lack of QC in these lights never ceases to amaze me.

garrybunk
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CheapThrills wrote:
Some comments on Turbo... I got well over 3A on full batteries measuring without the tailcap. Just head and batteries... BUT: I sometimes got just ~2.00A on High when cycling through modes :~ Most of the time I got the 2.5A-3A or something like that. Garry: try to check if your PCB is clean and pill PROPERLY screwed down. Body / tail connection has to be clean also. Next I will try to measure through tail switch.

So you can't get a consistent High level either?  Current on High seems to change when you cycle modes and come back to it? 

How are you tightening the pill - from the backside (driver side)?  I can't get the head of mine unscrewed (to get to the emitter).  My PCB seems very clean as well as the tail/switch area.  I can check again when I have time, but I hate to remove that tail again (afraid to strip threads/screw heads). 

-Garry

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garrybunk
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Ubehebe wrote:
>>>>try to check if your PCB is clean and pill PROPERLY screwed down. Man, you were right. I just checked and my pill was totally wobbly and backed out like 1/16th of inch. Surprised it worked as well as it did. Hard to get the pill in tight because mine did not have any front notches to insert hemostats to get leverage for a tight seat. I used the the two holes in the PCB to insert hemostats and get leverage, but didn't want to turn too tight in case the PCB suddenly broke free. Still, 100 times better than when it arrived. HD2010 still looks appreciably brighter though Sad The lack of QC in these lights never ceases to amaze me.

Any idea of tailcap currents?  How much higher it rose?

-Garry

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Ubehebe
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>>>>>Any idea of tailcap currents? How much higher it rose?

My tailcap screws look like they were put in at angles by a retarded monkey. I’m afraid to touch the thing lest the screws never go back in again. Is there anyway to do a tailcap test without removing the switch housing?

gords1001
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Sorry to hear that yours is driven even worse than the “normal” 2.4A. If you see the same value sense resistors, how can it be driven any less than others with the same value resistors? I don’t get it. What about cleaning threads and contact points?At least I can tell you that you won’t be disappointed at all once you’ve cranked up the amps!

Oh, I’m impressed with with the visible output with one arm tied behind its back, in fighting trim it should be amazing. The low current could be down to a poor earth path, remember the paper spacer, but I can’t solder it down till I’ve added and dialed in a pot. I’m going to find my maplin catalogue tonight and see what pots are available, I’m hoping for a 0 – 0.5ohm one.

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Ubehebe wrote:
>>>>>Any idea of tailcap currents? How much higher it rose?

My tailcap screws look like they were put in at angles by a retarded monkey. I’m afraid to touch the thing lest the screws never go back in again. Is there anyway to do a tailcap test without removing the switch housing?

Damn that restarted monkey! He did the same to one of my screws too! Using an Allen wrench, I was able straighten it out and screw it deep enough so the flashlight can tail stand. That one screw isnt tight, but at least it’s flush.

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garrybunk wrote:

CheapThrills wrote:
Some comments on Turbo... I got well over 3A on full batteries measuring without the tailcap. Just head and batteries... BUT: I sometimes got just ~2.00A on High when cycling through modes :~ Most of the time I got the 2.5A-3A or something like that. Garry: try to check if your PCB is clean and pill PROPERLY screwed down. Body / tail connection has to be clean also. Next I will try to measure through tail switch.

So you can't get a consistent High level either?  Current on High seems to change when you cycle modes and come back to it? 

How are you tightening the pill - from the backside (driver side)?  I can't get the head of mine unscrewed (to get to the emitter).  My PCB seems very clean as well as the tail/switch area.  I can check again when I have time, but I hate to remove that tail again (afraid to strip threads/screw heads). 

-Garry

 

I think I get pretty consistent "Turbo" but just an occasional "High". Weird...

 

I took out the tail switch assembly. Hexagonal screws were easy to take out. 2 screws inside: I would recommend using right driver size, press down HARD, turn gently.

Measured the amperage shorting 1 pcs of Xtar 2600mAh through Switch PCB screw hole in body:

Steady 3.3A on both holes. In repetitive fashion, always the same.

Bridging the Switch (when OFF) with DMM, I got also steady 3.3A all the time.

 

Thing to think:

My Other Smallsun, ZY-T13 has brighter hotspot (confirmed by wife Wink  ) and to my eye, gives more light OTF measured by ceiling bounce.

...but it takes just 1.08A when measured with 2 x Xtar 2600mAh :~

What is this???

 

Can some professional measure the resistance for that bare switch component, please?

Can there be any other bottleneck or reason??

IMO, 2.2A vs. 3.3A should be "pretty obvious" or at least pretty close to each other?

 

Granted, the ZY-T08 has a plastic reflector which also looks a bit of lesser quality...

CheapThrills
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Forgot to say I liberally flushed PCB and body screw holes with CRC precision cleaner for electronics.
No idea if it helped but that over-the-switch value was measured after this.
So, I assume there should be good connection from switch PCB -> Body.

Ubehebe
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>>>>>That one screw isnt tight, but at least it’s flush.

That’s what I’m afraid of X 3, and then there will be no tight screws to hold the backplate in place.

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CheapThrills wrote:

Thing to think:

My Other Smallsun, ZY-T13 has brighter hotspot (confirmed by wife Wink  ) and to my eye, gives more light OTF measured by ceiling bounce.

...but it takes just 1.08A when measured with 2 x Xtar 2600mAh :~

What is this???

Ah, that's exactly my thoughts too! What is this? How does T13 do it?

Doing wallshot with a direct-driven C8 at 4A... why is it that the C8 almost look like putting half the T13's output? And my T13 only pulling 1.5A, or basically 3A single-cell equivalent.

Very efficient buck driver? 

CheapThrills
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Pulsar13 wrote:

CheapThrills wrote:

Thing to think:

My Other Smallsun, ZY-T13 has brighter hotspot (confirmed by wife Wink  ) and to my eye, gives more light OTF measured by ceiling bounce.

…but it takes just 1.08A when measured with 2 x Xtar 2600mAh :~

What is this???

Ah, that’s exactly my thoughts too! What is this? How does T13 do it?

Doing wallshot with a direct-driven C8 at 4A… why is it that the C8 almost look like putting half the T13’s output? And my T13 only pulling 1.5A, or basically 3A single-cell equivalent.

Very efficient buck driver? 

Or optics???

gords1001
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The optics are what I think is impressing me, the drive current is low but I still get a thick beam of light with a lighter cone of spill.

I think the uf-v3 is a similar situation.

That said, both are getting a severe kick in the rump, you can’t beat cubic inches or sheer amps….. J)

garrybunk
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I'm just continuing to wonder why there is so much variation between lights.  I am betting the drivers are identical and we're all dealing with loss of output due to resistances somewhere (contacts, springs, switch, etc. . .).  It may not need driver modification.

-Garry

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gords1001
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True, I won’t get chance to properly play till weekend, and the little tail cover screws are bugging me.

I too have the drunk monkey assembly issues, so bad I’m thinking of redrilling and tapping the cover screws. The head to body contact is clean and lock out happens with a slight loosening of the head, literally cracking it locks it out, but a strip down, contact clean and reassembly may be worthwhile, just if I’m doing that, I may as well have a potentiometer, some flux and solder and the iron to hand as well. 0:) 8)

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I wonder if this switch isn't a big part of the problem, but then again I was getting my "Turbo" to "High" fluctuating readings with the switch out of the circuit.  But it sounds like the switch may be CheapThrills issue since he's getting "steady 3.3A" across the switch.  CheapThrills - how well do you trust your DMM and leads?  Pretty reliable for trustworthy readings?  I'm assuming so. 

-Garry

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gords1001
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I took my readings across the switch terminals, so if resistance is me issue, its either switch board to ground, tail springs or driver ground to body. At the moment, I think both the switch board needs removing and something needs doing about the driver mounting.

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I took my readings with the switch board completely removed (later realized I could have just measured across the switch or from one switch contact to screw thread hole). Whats the problem with the driver mounting?  Do you think the ground path is a problem for a press-fit driver? 

-Garry

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gords1001
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They used a piece of thin card/thick paper to stop the driver falling out, without the card, its like throwing a sausage down the main road…. It needs soldering, I’m not looking forward to that tbh, never got alu to take. Sad

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I doubt it is the PCB -> body, that is blocking (at least when clean).
Measuring PCB in place over the switch gave good readings…

mazda96hatch
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A quick question for those that have removed the driver board. Mine must have not been working
too well out of the factory, but you all know the rigid QC that these torches must under go,
the minor problem was identified and rectified. So just to make sure I’m not missing a locking ring etc
was it soldered/glued or ????

The little piece of cardboard was used to “lock” the board in place and the extra bit of wire just to
make sure there was “excellent contact” with the pill. With these high quality items removed unfortunately
the driver now just floats about.

gords1001
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I have a similar cardboard retaining device, I didn’t get the paper clip earth strap though :~

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gords1001 wrote:
I have a similar cardboard retaining device, I didn’t get the paper clip earth strap though :~

haha! Retaining device. Its so surprising to find one of my favorite flashlights is so ghetto rigged inside! We got retarded monkeys assembling the tail cap, and MacGyver working the internals.

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I might try old lumens trick of soldering wire strands around the earth ring to make the driver a tight fit in the cavity, I’ll just have to do each step, take current readings and see what does the trick.

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CheapThrills wrote:
Granted, the ZY-T08 has a plastic reflector which also looks a bit of lesser quality…

Plastic? Mine is aluminium, no doubt. The driver is very tight in mine, there is a little piece of wire soldered on the side of the driver, and that’s all. The switch is absolutely good in mine, the resistance what I measured on the switch was less than 10mohm, that’s very good. The springs have some resistances, I don’t remember exactly, somewhere 30-40mohm. It would be better if you measure the current with 2 cells and with thick DMM probes, what I noticed the driver is very sensitive to the internal resistance of the cells (and the resistance of the whole circuit of course). Earlier I wrote in the other T08 topic, that sometimes I got higher amperage with weaker cells, this is a regulation failure not “turbo mode”.
Unfortunately I killed my driver with my PSU some days ago, I was careless, the psu was set to 16V and… ,so I can’t do new measurements on it.

this is what I wrote earlier:

I did a brightness runtime test with 2 TF flame, and the light looks well regulated, so I don’t know why increases the output sometimes with weaker cells. Here is the brightness runtime graph after a conservative resistor modification on the driver:

unique engrish language... Smile

 

gords1001
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Ah, so they sometimes pulled o-l’s trick at the factory, that’s good to know. I’ll have a play at weekend.

southland
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viffer750][quote=CheapThrills wrote:
Granted, the ZY-T08 has a plastic reflector which also looks a bit of lesser quality…
Quote:
Plastic? Mine is aluminium, no doubt.

Mine is definitely aluminum also.

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I have measured over 3A with one cell through body and also over 3A shorting over switch with 2 cells.

Without body, I got also most of the time over 3 amps. I held 2 batteries by hand, minus poles were connected and then measured by DMM.

Just saying, that I would assume no resistor mod is needed on this one. Also, pretty good amperes, is there need to try with thicker cables?

The thing I’m wondering is the seemingly poor performance against 1A lesser driven Smallsun. (it will be resistor modded soon…) Smile

I have to check again reflector, I may have been mistaken it as plastic…

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I don't remember seeing any cardboard or paperclip/wire holding my driver in.  I'll have to take a look.  I'll probably remove the driver at some point, clean everything up (i.e. threads) and do O-L's ground wire trick on mine as well. 

Thanks for your input viffer!  Would it be a good idea to do a copper braid resistance mod to the tailcap battery spings?  Would this help increase current?  Or would that possibly cause current to rise too high?  I'm guessing to leave that as my last step and see how current acts after cleaning up the pill/driver.

-Garry

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viffer750
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CheapThrills wrote:
Also, pretty good amperes, is there need to try with thicker cables?

This is not an “axiomatical” thing that if you use thicker cables the amperage will increase, because this is not a direct drive driver. Maybe if you use thicker cable the current will decrease. That was what I said before, when I have used good cells with low internal resistance, the current was at a lower level.
When I have used weaker cells with high internal resistance, the current increased (that means higher impedance in the circuit, same situation if you use thin Dmm cables)
It would be the best if the DMM self resistance (DMM+cables) would be equal with the switch resistance (less than 10mohm). A DMM self resistance often higher than 100-200mohm, so this is why we have to use thick cables. The DMM self resistance will never be 10 or less milliohm, but we have to try to decrease as much as we can.

unique engrish language... Smile

 

viffer750
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garrybunk wrote:
Would it be a good idea to do a copper braid resistance mod to the tailcap battery spings? Would this help increase current? Or would that possibly cause current to rise too high?

Hard to tell, I think it will not increase the current, only stabilize (maybe it will eliminate the turbo mode).
It’s a little strange driver, but mine was well regulated with 2 TF flame.

unique engrish language... Smile

 

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