Longer throw without changing the driver !! :) Prototype is done and now it's time for testing.. ( more beam shots)

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DayLighter
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Longer throw without changing the driver !! :) Prototype is done and now it's time for testing.. ( more beam shots)

finally after goofing off around Christmas time, i manage to somewhat finish the project.here’s my prototype
there’s 2 of them.. and this is part I ( short type)

Photobucket distance to the wall is about 10 feet away TMart 3W MDXL BEFORE Photobucket</a

AFTER
Photobucket

Ultrafire WF 502B Before Photobucket]

After
Photobucket

the light meter was set to 10X ( 20000) lux the device was able to multiply the light hotspot brighter by about 3X Big Smile

The only way to do a great work is to love what you do.

Edited by: DayLighter on 12/31/2012 - 13:55
I ant
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What is that thing? How does it work and what could you use it for?

New here…

DayLighter
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it’s just something that i created to boost the light by about 300%, without the need of changing the driver.
the way it works is by using fresnel lens ( magnifying glasses) so the light is concentrated in the hotspot,thus make it seems brighter :).
is it useful? could be.. if you only have a small light and you need to light up very far ahead, this might come in handy
but is it practical? depends.. Smile

The only way to do a great work is to love what you do.

I ant
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Thanks for reply.
I was thinking about using magnifying lenses on a flashlight ands. Wondering what would that do. You’ve done it before me, it’s nice to see what happens.
What would happen with smaller distances between lenses?

Nobody else is interested in this ?

DayLighter
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shorter distance you get floody beam.. kinda nice if you ride a bike or you need to illuminate 20 feet around you Smile

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I ant
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So you kind of have to fine tune it to get more light focused, for far away distances…
Closer distance – will there be more lumens output?

DayLighter
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it’s seem like it.. according to the light meter it gained almost around 3X of the original output.take a look at the numbers on the light meter Smile
also depending on the distance and the size of the front lens,( and also the reflector on the flashlight)
the longer the distance and the bigger front lens = more brighter light ouput.
sadly this thing doesn’t really work well on multiple emiters. it just give bigger hotspot and slightly brighter but not throwier

The only way to do a great work is to love what you do.

chiefinspectorfinch
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I’m aware that education system in US is far from perfect but even that should be no excuse for not knowing some of elemental facts. For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy

Translated in short for this example: Once certain “amount” of light leaves led diode it’s “quantity” can only be reduced further due to the transmission losses. In this case we have wrong methodology for measuring light output and poor understanding of some basic “common known” facts…

Society is like a pot full of nuts and bolts, finest pieces always end up on the bottom...

 

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you increased lux sir, not light output.

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So the C8 went from 19kcd to 74 kcd I think. Pretty cool really. Now it can outthrow a 7g9. Same concept as aspherics but multi-flashlight use and bulky?

LAB
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What is that reflective film you used around the glass tube?

scaru
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Yes, I would just like to clarify there is actually less light. The difference is it is all focused into the beam rather than "Wasted" in the spill. For example this light used 200 lumens (very small amount of light) but is able to achieve 1.8 million cd. 

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Long focal length magnifier lens can focus the beam to the wall & make the spot very bright, 10x brighter easily, but this diverge the beam and thus reduce flashlight throw.

In this case, greatly increased lux on the wall = greatly decreased throw!

This is like playing with magnifying glass to focus sun light, the focused spot is strong enough to ignite fire, but will no longer throw long distance.

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Nice DIY collimator lens? So they meant lux instead of increase output, blame 50 years of Western Capitalism.

Don wrote:
It sounds like the XM LEDs won’t really be suitable for flashlight use. Pity…

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i beg to different..although i only pointed the light to the wall within from 10’ away, that’s because my point and shoot camera can only zoom so much..
basically what i’m trying to do is.. just like a telescope.. it does magnified the light output.
now keep in mind when i’m using Tmart 3W MXDL light, and pointed to another wall 50 feet away, it barely create a hotspot that visible.
but when i used the this device, it can create a brighter hotspot.
i’m gonna try to put the light meter on that wall and have my wife take the picture and see if it makes any different.
you don’t have to be very well educated or an engineer working for NASA to see the different in brightness.:)

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feilox wrote:
Nice DIY collimator lens? So they meant lux instead of increase output, blame 50 years of Western Capitalism.

it’s a simple 2X magnifying glass in the front.. i’m wondering if it brighter if i can get my hands on one of those 4X or 5X power Big Smile

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LAB wrote:
What is that reflective film you used around the glass tube?

that’s something that i found in craft and hobbyist store.. it sell for $2.50/ yard

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Silly
chiefinspectorfinch wrote:
I’m aware that education system in US is far from perfect but even that should be no excuse for not knowing some of elemental facts. For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy

Translated in short for this example: Once certain “amount” of light leaves led diode it’s “quantity” can only be reduced further due to the transmission losses. In this case we have wrong methodology for measuring light output and poor understanding of some basic “common known” facts…

you don’t have to be a Rocket scientist to realize which one is brighter.
it’s a very simple concept.. all the light that was scattered when it leaves the led diode was then focus into a tighter spot, thus it can throw farther.
example.. if you have a running water coming out from the hose.. it can only shoot as far as it can get.
now if you put your finger on the hose, slightly covering the hose.. the water will travel farther than before.
same concept.
the point is.. it doesn’t matter to me if it the output is the same or not… but if i can see more farther than my measly flashlight can shoot.. i’m happy Big Smile

PS:do you think the education system in Croatia is better than in US? ‘cos i don’t think croatia able to send the man to the moon yet Silly

The only way to do a great work is to love what you do.

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Obviously problem is in terminology. Light is not brighter, it is as you said just better focused. Topic subject is simply misleading…

PS. Our education system is quite good but ability to send a man to the moon (or hollywood studio) has little to do with it.

Society is like a pot full of nuts and bolts, finest pieces always end up on the bottom...

 

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chiefinspectorfinch wrote:
Obviously problem is in terminology. Light is not brighter, it is as you said just better focused. Topic subject is simply misleading…

PS. Our education system is quite good but ability to send a man to the moon (or hollywood studio) has little to do with it.


hmm.. topic subject is misleading?
which part that you don’t get? if it using the same light without modying the driver.. and the light is more brighter than before.. and it can throw more farther before..so what would you like to call it? Flat Stare

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DayLighter wrote:
hmm.. topic subject is misleading? which part that you don't get? if it using the same light without modying the driver.. and the light is more brighter than before.. and it can throw more farther before..so what would you like to call it? :|

Daylighter, brightness refers to the lumen output. This is the total output, which actually decreases with your mod due to inefficiencies in optics. Throwing further is an increase in candela, or how much light there is in the very center/brightest part of the beam. This goes up in your light since more of the light is going forward and less is in the spill. 

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scaru wrote:

DayLighter wrote:
hmm.. topic subject is misleading? which part that you don’t get? if it using the same light without modying the driver.. and the light is more brighter than before.. and it can throw more farther before..so what would you like to call it? Flat Stare

Daylighter, brightness refers to the lumen output. This is the total output, which actually decreases with your mod due to inefficiencies in optics. Throwing further is an increase in candela, or how much light there is in the very center/brightest part of the beam. This goes up in your light since more of the light is going forward and less is in the spill. 

sorry scaru.. i’m still at lost here, my mod enabled me to shine object more clearly than before.. i can see shine more farther than before.. but it doesn’t mean it’s more brighter? so what you guys call it then? :8)

The only way to do a great work is to love what you do.

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DayLighter wrote:
scaru wrote:

DayLighter wrote:
hmm.. topic subject is misleading? which part that you don't get? if it using the same light without modying the driver.. and the light is more brighter than before.. and it can throw more farther before..so what would you like to call it? :|

Daylighter, brightness refers to the lumen output. This is the total output, which actually decreases with your mod due to inefficiencies in optics. Throwing further is an increase in candela, or how much light there is in the very center/brightest part of the beam. This goes up in your light since more of the light is going forward and less is in the spill. 

sorry scaru.. i'm still at lost here, my mod enabled me to shine object more clearly than before.. i can see shine more farther than before.. but it doesn't mean it's more brighter? so what you guys call it then? :8)

Brightness, is the total light. To get an idea of total light point the light at the ceiling and measure lux on the floor next to the light. It will be less with your mod. 

The reason it throws further is because more light gets focused into on spot. 

Here a diagram is. 

Notice how before there are 9 beams before and 7 after. Yet the after one would clearly light up things further away, despite there being less light. 

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Yea, as people mentioned the brightness is about the same besides losing some through your device. If you did a ceiling bounce test, the room would stay about the same brightness whether you had your device on it or not because the lumens from the emitter remains the same. While the hotspot becomes brighter, your spill becomes dimmer.

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This thread is very confusing and filled with misunderstandings. Take your time and read the truth here:
Brightness -Wikipedia
and here:
Luminance -Wikipedia

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scaru wrote:

DayLighter wrote:
scaru wrote:

DayLighter wrote:
hmm.. topic subject is misleading? which part that you don’t get? if it using the same light without modying the driver.. and the light is more brighter than before.. and it can throw more farther before..so what would you like to call it? Flat Stare

Daylighter, brightness refers to the lumen output. This is the total output, which actually decreases with your mod due to inefficiencies in optics. Throwing further is an increase in candela, or how much light there is in the very center/brightest part of the beam. This goes up in your light since more of the light is going forward and less is in the spill. 

sorry scaru.. i’m still at lost here, my mod enabled me to shine object more clearly than before.. i can see shine more farther than before.. but it doesn’t mean it’s more brighter? so what you guys call it then? :8)

Brightness, is the total light. To get an idea of total light point the light at the ceiling and measure lux on the floor next to the light. It will be less with your mod. 

The reason it throws further is because more light gets focused into on spot. 

Here a diagram is. 

Notice how before there are 9 beams before and 7 after. Yet the after one would clearly light up things further away, despite there being less light. 


Is this the same concept as why an XP-G can outthrow an XM-L with superior lumens?
scaru
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Ouchyfoot wrote:
scaru wrote:

DayLighter wrote:
scaru wrote:

DayLighter wrote:
hmm.. topic subject is misleading? which part that you don't get? if it using the same light without modying the driver.. and the light is more brighter than before.. and it can throw more farther before..so what would you like to call it? :|

Daylighter, brightness refers to the lumen output. This is the total output, which actually decreases with your mod due to inefficiencies in optics. Throwing further is an increase in candela, or how much light there is in the very center/brightest part of the beam. This goes up in your light since more of the light is going forward and less is in the spill. 

sorry scaru.. i'm still at lost here, my mod enabled me to shine object more clearly than before.. i can see shine more farther than before.. but it doesn't mean it's more brighter? so what you guys call it then? :8)

Brightness, is the total light. To get an idea of total light point the light at the ceiling and measure lux on the floor next to the light. It will be less with your mod. 

The reason it throws further is because more light gets focused into on spot. 

Here a diagram is. 

Notice how before there are 9 beams before and 7 after. Yet the after one would clearly light up things further away, despite there being less light. 

Is this the same concept as why an XP-G can outthrow an XM-L with superior lumens?

It is what happens, but is not why. The reason the XP-G can throw further is the smaller die size, so it is closer to a point source of light. So what matters for that is lumens per mm2. Which is where the XP-E2 wins, but then you have to take into account the beam angle which is narrower on the XR-E which could be beneficial with aspheric lenses, but is detrimental with reflectors. 

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XPGs can throw further because the surface area of the XPG die is 1×1mm while that of the XM-L is 2×2mm ie, four times as large. Reflectors in a different way from aspherical lenses project an image of the die forward so the smaller the die, the smaller the size of the hot spot.

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Geeeezus people…for goodness sake can we just agree the light does appear brighter?
let’s not throw lumens or candela or scientific formula into how to calculate the brightness into this mod.
it is what it is.. the lux meter show it’s brighter and that’s good enough for me even if it still the same lumen.
what i’m trying to achieve here ..is to use a cheap and decent light and turn it into something of more expensive thrower
the mod does create a brighter hotspot, the same hotspot of more expensive light that cost 10X more expensive.
of course as we know it.. to get throw, you will sacrifice spill, you can’t have the throw of TN31 with the spill of TR-J18.
so let’s us all just agree that the mod gives a better illumination than before.
if there’s no pictures to back it up.. then all is just words Big Smile

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eebowler wrote:
XPGs can throw further because the surface area of the XPG die is 1x1mm while that of the XM-L is 2x2mm ie, four times as large. Reflectors in a different way from aspherical lenses project an image of the die forward so the smaller the die, the smaller the size of the hot spot.

Is that it? I thought that the problem was since optics are designed for a true point source anything not in that point is not going to go perfectly "Straight" and will diverge from the beam. Then the higher lumens per mm2 of the XP-G will make it throw further. 

For example the XP-G2 die produces 86.73 lumens per mm2 while the XM-L die produces 45.5 lumens per mm2

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