Longer throw without changing the driver !! :) Prototype is done and now it's time for testing.. ( more beam shots)

[NightCrawl]

Didnt even work on my P60. So I dont know what kind of lights could benefit. Cheap aspherics?

[DayLighter]

@scaru

@DayLighter

i think this debate started with ma_sha1 post #12: Long focal length magnifier lens can focus the beam to the wall & make the spot very bright, 10x brighter easily, but this diverge the beam and thus reduce flashlight throw. In this case, greatly increased lux on the wall = greatly decreased throw! This is like playing with magnifying glass to focus sun light, the focused spot is strong enough to ignite fire, but will no longer throw long distance. well guess what? i proved him wrong, how could you increase the lux but suffer decrease in throw?

You proved him wrong in regard to flood lights, anything with a decent sized reflector will not benefit from this as shown by my experiment. It was brighter on the wall with the fresnel lens, but did not throw as far. That is quite clear.

it still can be done, however you might need different size of magnifying glasses, something that i currently don’t have nor i can’t find a big one as in 10” diameter… check your post regarding that 10” diameter monster thrower.

[scaru]

@DayLighter

@scaru

@DayLighter

i think this debate started with ma_sha1 post #12: Long focal length magnifier lens can focus the beam to the wall & make the spot very bright, 10x brighter easily, but this diverge the beam and thus reduce flashlight throw. In this case, greatly increased lux on the wall = greatly decreased throw! This is like playing with magnifying glass to focus sun light, the focused spot is strong enough to ignite fire, but +will no longer throw long distance. + well guess what? i proved him wrong, how could you increase the lux but suffer decrease in throw?

You proved him wrong in regard to flood lights, anything with a decent sized reflector will not benefit from this as shown by my experiment. It was brighter on the wall with the fresnel lens, but did not throw as far. That is quite clear.

it still can be done, however you might need different size of magnifying glasses, something that i currently don’t have nor i can’t find a big one as in 10" diameter… check your post regarding that 10" diameter monster thrower.

I was using a 8.5 inch by 11 inch fresnel lens. It was plenty big...

[sixty545]

Peace Daylighter, my post #177 was aimed at your opponents!

[DayLighter]

@scaru

@DayLighter

@scaru

@DayLighter

i think this debate started with ma_sha1 post #12: Long focal length magnifier lens can focus the beam to the wall & make the spot very bright, 10x brighter easily, but this diverge the beam and thus reduce flashlight throw. In this case, greatly increased lux on the wall = greatly decreased throw! This is like playing with magnifying glass to focus sun light, the focused spot is strong enough to ignite fire, but will no longer throw long distance. well guess what? i proved him wrong, how could you increase the lux but suffer decrease in throw?

You proved him wrong in regard to flood lights, anything with a decent sized reflector will not benefit from this as shown by my experiment. It was brighter on the wall with the fresnel lens, but did not throw as far. That is quite clear.

it still can be done, however you might need different size of magnifying glasses, something that i currently don’t have nor i can’t find a big one as in 10” diameter… check your post regarding that 10” diameter monster thrower.

I was using a 8.5 inch by 11 inch fresnel lens. It was plenty big…

yeah it doesn’t really work well with thrower… only works very well with flooder light

[scaru]

@DayLighter

yeah it doesn’t really work well with thrower… only works very well with flooder light

Ok, so you admit you didn't prove ma_sha wrong?

@DayLighter

i think this debate started with ma_sha1 post #12: Long focal length magnifier lens can focus the beam to the wall & make the spot very bright, 10x brighter easily, but this diverge the beam and thus reduce flashlight throw. In this case, greatly increased lux on the wall = greatly decreased throw! This is like playing with magnifying glass to focus sun light, the focused spot is strong enough to ignite fire, but +will no longer throw long distance. + well guess what? i proved him wrong, how could you increase the lux but suffer decrease in throw?

[dct73]

@NZ Shooter

@Rufusbduck

When you stuck your finger in the hose it went farther but less water actually came out.

Sorry fella, totally incorrect.

Fill up a bucket with an un-restricted hose, time how long it takes.

Do it again, same bucket, same hose flow with your finger partly over the end.

The times will be the same ( give or take a second or two, as you may not stop at exactly the same fill line )

Less water runs out, but at a faster rate. Equaling identical water flow, say litres / minute.

I’m going to pile on mister know it all here. Sorry fella, YOU are totally incorrect. Do your experiment accurately and you will find out the times are NOT the same. By putting your finger over the hose you introduced a restriction to the flow so the actual flow goes down. The only way you can maintain the same flow in the restricted line is to increase the pressure.

[skyrider1]

There are no opponents, just people wanting to clarify terminology and what was done.

If you use a magnifying glass to focus sunlight, you have greatly increased lux at the focus point, but past that point the beam will disperse and not stay focused. I think that is the clarification people want to get across.

[DayLighter]

@scaru

@DayLighter

yeah it doesn’t really work well with thrower… only works very well with flooder light

Ok, so you admit you didn’t prove ma_sha wrong?

@DayLighter

i think this debate started with ma_sha1 post #12: Long focal length magnifier lens can focus the beam to the wall & make the spot very bright, 10x brighter easily, but this diverge the beam and thus reduce flashlight throw. In this case, greatly increased lux on the wall = greatly decreased throw! This is like playing with magnifying glass to focus sun light, the focused spot is strong enough to ignite fire, but will no longer throw long distance. well guess what? i proved him wrong, how could you increase the lux but suffer decrease in throw?

nope… i’m still stand on my statement, with flooder lights that i’m testing… it’s definitely will not loss in throw distance, in fact it increase by many times fold, HOWEVER… using throw flashlight… it doesn’t works as well as flooder light…maybe because the way the reflector beams out the light?
i don’t know i’m not a light engineer. but it is only prove it only works well with flooder lights only…
i’m still trying to find a way to increase the throw using thrower light. that’s why it’s called prototype

[scaru]

@DayLighter

nope… i’m still stand on my statement, with flooder lights that i’m testing… it’s definitely will not loss in throw distance, in fact it increase by many times fold, HOWEVER… using throw flashlight… it doesn’t works as well as flooder light…maybe because the way the reflector beams out the light? i don’t know i’m not a light engineer. but it is only prove it only works well with flooder lights only… i’m still trying to find a way to increase the throw using thrower light. that’s why it’s called prototype

Ok, so you stand by your statement that ma_sha was wrong when he said

@ma_sha1

In this case, greatly increased lux on the wall = greatly decreased throw!

Even though you said.

@DayLighter

yeah it doesn’t really work well with thrower… only works very well with flooder light

You have contradicted yourself.

[DayLighter]

@JonnyC

This is the craziest thread I’ve seen on here. Maybe that just means I don’t step outside of of the DIY section often enough.

If you’re going for THROW, why not just toss an aspheric lens on a host and be done with it?! Or just buy a $10 zoomable light that will out throw whatever contraption you come up with? If you want to have something that can be as universal as possible, just use your telescope instead of trying to create a half-ass one.

Also, concepts (and subsequent definitions) matter. They are integral to communication. If you want to avoid having to think conceptually, then you have to accept the fact that no one will be able to have a rational discussion with you (i.e. you won’t be able to learn anything).

using aspheric lenses won’t produce the same result…zoomable light have that square hotspot… however when you combine the zoomlight with this thing… it cancel out the square hotspot without losing the throw distance:)
my telscope only can fit Trustfire WF 502B perfectly, but not other lights that i currently own, that’s why i’m trying to build it bigger, using the same concept as telescope, but can be use with different lights
PS… the zoomie light will never out throw this device when used with trustfire 502b:)

[paul68]

What you need to take into account is the effect that ‘spill’ has on your eye’s pupils. The intensity of the foreground spill will affect your perception of the hot spot in the distance. If your pupils have ‘stopped down’ to handle the light in the foreground then the hotspot will appear dimmer. Concentrate all the spill into the hotspot then the ‘throw’ will appear brighter because your pupils will be open wider (much like DayLighter’s auto camera’s apeture).
I can see both sides of the argument here. There is less light but it’s put where it’s needed. This is why the Jacob A60 is still well thought of as a thrower even though it is low on lumens.
By the way a fun experiment & another excuse to play with my torches.
BTW Have a Happy New Year everyone.

[DayLighter]

@JonnyC

@DayLighter

i’m still trying to find a way to increase the throw using thrower light. that’s why it’s called prototype

XR-E emitter and an aspheric lens. Done.

I think trying to make something universal will be economically a waste (of both time and money). I celebrate experimentation, but it should be to gain knowledge or results. You don’t seem intent on gaining knowledge, and what you create will be less usable and effective than something you can buy for cheap.

judging on your comment, i guess you didn’t see the last picture that i posted?
you didn’t gain any knowledge on that experiment?

is my creation will less usable and effective than something i can buy?( don’t know about cheap) absolutely…
it’s an idea that i created and hoping will spawn another idea, a better one …
but if we can only be happy with 1 king thrower such as TN31 and 1 flooder maybe something like TK75…then who need idea? then who need forums like these ?
i’m pretty sure you owned more than 2 flashlights… and maybe getting more in the future.
but if there’s an idea out there that can make all the lights that you own and turn it into “monster”light… wouldn’t you want one?
and where do you think those idea will come from?
it’s the people like me who like to waste their time and money trying build something to improve what we have own already.
as far if it work well or not? there’s only 1 way to find out.
so…it probably will be much nicer if you can come out with something nicer build and share it with others instead raining on others parade

[scaru]

The problem is it doesn't turn it into a monster light... It may turn a flooder into a thrower, but why not start with a thrower in the first place? And while yes, you are modifying lights; so am I. The difference is I understand what I'm doing and actually make it brighter. (Driver swap, or LED swap, or more LEDs) Either way, Happy new year!

[Rufusbduck]

You have an idea, an interesting one, but your initial claims were made based on an incorrect use of terminology. Yes, it’s brighter, but an increase in light on the target doesn’t mean an increase in light from the torch. I certainly don’t want to bash you or stifle your creativity but the rampant inflated claims of run time and output by marketers make people trigger happy when new claims come out and it was too easy to spot the flaws in your statements. What you’ve done could save a life someday. Well done. I hope you have learned a bit more about flood vs throw and the trade offs between them when focusing light. Thanks

[DayLighter]

@scaru

The problem is it doesn’t turn it into a monster light… It may turn a flooder into a thrower, but why not start with a thrower in the first place? And while yes, you are modifying lights; so am I. The difference is I understand what I’m doing and actually make it brighter. (Driver swap, or LED swap, or more LEDs) Either way, Happy new year!

lol… the problem is… it doesn’t meet the requirement of what’s brighter means to you, like i said…if you expecting a cheap $12 light and turn it to a monster throw like HIDs then you’re setting yourself up for dissapointment. happy new year to you too :party:

[DayLighter]

@Rufusbduck

You have an idea, an interesting one, but your initial claims were made based on an incorrect use of terminology. Yes, it’s brighter, but an increase in light on the target doesn’t mean an increase in light from the torch. I certainly don’t want to bash you or stifle your creativity but the rampant inflated claims of run time and output by marketers make people trigger happy when new claims come out and it was too easy to spot the flaws in your statements. What you’ve done could save a life someday. Well done. I hope you have learned a bit more about flood vs throw and the trade offs between them when focusing light. Thanks

yes i do learn a lot from this experiments… never mention the word “brighter”… i should just let the picture speaks for themselves next time
happy new year! :party:
PS: this mode will come in handy someday if you ever go need to go search and rescue and the only light you have is one of those small flooder light

[Rufusbduck]

” When you put your finger over the tip of the hose, you decrease the amount of space the water has to flow through. Since the same amount of water has to flow out of the hose before and after you place you finger over the end, the water must shoot out faster (to keep the amount of water flowing out a constant).”

The point is that the only way “to keep the amount flowing out a constant” once you put your finger on it is to turn the pressure up. He assumes a constant flow rate which is not the case. I’m sure the author would concede that extremely basic concept. Texts do sometimes have errors. Thats why we have editors. The collimator introduces a restriction in the flow of light but there has been no increase in the light pressure going into it.

[skyrider1]

The 300ft beamshot was with a telescope, not his mod.

The problem in this thread is all the terms being thrown around without proper understanding of what they mean. (I myself probably made some errors). Another problem is the contradictions of the OP bringing in the telescope and his mod. They are very different, 2 lens vs 1 lens.

[skyrider1]

Let’s just put that analogy to rest as it is bringing this thread off topic.