INTL-OUTDOOR Direct-Thermal Copper MCPCB Review

86 posts / 0 new
Last post
comfychair
comfychair's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 05:39
Posts: 6198

JackCY wrote:
Pulsar wrote:
but these noctigons are two for the price of one sinkpad. and with better thermal design, it almost makes me wonder why anyone would purchase a sinkpad again not saying toss your sinkpad and buy the noctigon, but just makes sense for future purchases
Depends how you get your SinkPADs, but yes they cost something usually. Anybody knows a website of Noctigon? Couldn't find it.

House brand of International Outdoor Store

JackCY
JackCY's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 6 months ago
Joined: 12/28/2012 - 16:30
Posts: 588
Location: Czech

Well sure, so they also got a manufacturing for direct copper boards? Interesting.

comfychair
comfychair's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 05:39
Posts: 6198

I guess you can ask Hank, he's got a dedicated thread for them here.

Bort
Bort's picture
Online
Last seen: 19 sec ago
Joined: 06/01/2012 - 17:15
Posts: 8338
Location: Holding the proverbial flashlight

I also like the fact that the noctigon is easily available, and a good price, but the gold will reduce performance slightly, i’m not sure by how much though but i do hope its negligible, but it is possible the sinkpad may have a slight advantage being all copper, but i still agree that real world performance should be comparable between the two.

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

 

 

Pulsar
Pulsar's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 4 days ago
Joined: 07/29/2011 - 00:41
Posts: 5848
Location: Maine

I thought only the solder pads were gold plated?
Either way, the results show a slight edge to the noctigon

Bort
Bort's picture
Online
Last seen: 19 sec ago
Joined: 06/01/2012 - 17:15
Posts: 8338
Location: Holding the proverbial flashlight

Pulsar wrote:
I thought only the solder pads were gold plated?
Either way, the results show a slight edge to the noctigon

the bottom is also gold plated, and the thermal analysis didn’t take into account the gold portion, i assume it will only make a degree or two difference, but so does the divet in the sinkpad

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

 

 

Pulsar
Pulsar's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 4 days ago
Joined: 07/29/2011 - 00:41
Posts: 5848
Location: Maine

Didn’t notice that. Good eye.
Though if people are worried about that, they can polish the gold plating off much easier than lapping that divot out.
But if I could get two sinkpads for the price of one noctigon, I would be going for the sinkpad.

Hikelite
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 1 week ago
Joined: 07/13/2011 - 16:18
Posts: 3888
Location: Honeyland

Bort wrote:
Pulsar wrote:
I thought only the solder pads were gold plated? Either way, the results show a slight edge to the noctigon
the bottom is also gold plated, and the thermal analysis didn't take into account the gold portion, i assume it will only make a degree or two difference, but so does the divet in the sinkpad

It's probably a 2-3microns thick finish (0.002-0.003mm) and hardly has an effect.

Hikelite
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 1 week ago
Joined: 07/13/2011 - 16:18
Posts: 3888
Location: Honeyland

Pulsar wrote:
Didn't notice that. Good eye.

It's specified on the website and in this review.

Bort
Bort's picture
Online
Last seen: 19 sec ago
Joined: 06/01/2012 - 17:15
Posts: 8338
Location: Holding the proverbial flashlight

Hikelite wrote:

Bort wrote:
Pulsar wrote:
I thought only the solder pads were gold plated? Either way, the results show a slight edge to the noctigon
the bottom is also gold plated, and the thermal analysis didn’t take into account the gold portion, i assume it will only make a degree or two difference, but so does the divet in the sinkpad

It’s probably a 2-3microns thick finish (0.002-0.003mm) and hardly has an effect.


i agree it likely has little effect, but i do keep it in mind

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

 

 

Pulsar
Pulsar's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 4 days ago
Joined: 07/29/2011 - 00:41
Posts: 5848
Location: Maine

Hikelite wrote:

Pulsar wrote:
Didn’t notice that. Good eye.

It’s specified on the website and in this review.


Oops Party shows how much I pay attention.
JackCY
JackCY's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 6 months ago
Joined: 12/28/2012 - 16:30
Posts: 588
Location: Czech

One thing I disliked on the SinkPADs I got is the thickness of the electrical connections. They could do them very wide but instead they make them just these tiny copper layer lines.

Now look at Noctigon and see how wide the copper electrical connection is from the pads to the emitter.
I have to say just that would make me prefer the Noctigons if the price and other things were the same as SinkPAD.

Sure you don’t need wide electrical connection, and they do safe some little cash on material by having it thin but it does not hurt to have it nice and wide especially when XM-L is 3A emitter, some people push it even higher and reducing all resistances is a nice thing to do with high loads.

Gold plating is a nice touch too, it does not tarnish over time. Especially if you touched it just once the pure copper will tarnish fast. At least I can see that on my SinkPADs stored in a sealed bag that I’ve touched and some didn’t even have to, it does tarnish. Especially if you work with pure copper you will notice it, otherwise you might just say hey that is clean, for quite some time until starts to get darker and browny and then green haha.

Firelight2
Firelight2's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 2 min ago
Joined: 04/08/2011 - 15:17
Posts: 4745
Location: California

How significant is the difference in thickness between Noctigon and Sinkpad?

Sinkpads seem to be substantially thicker? Will this make them better able to absorb and transfer heat? Especially considering the star is going to be sitting inside an aluminum flashlight.

texaspyro
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 4 months ago
Joined: 04/29/2011 - 12:43
Posts: 4593
Bort wrote:
but the gold will reduce performance slightly

Totally unmeasurable… gold is the fourth best conductor of heat (diamond, silver, copper, gold) and it is VERY thin. It’s conductivity is around 15% less than copper. Aluminum is about half that of copper.

relic38
relic38's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 11 months ago
Joined: 12/28/2012 - 00:39
Posts: 3390
Location: Toronto, Canada

What texaspyro said, gold is very close to copper. Right between aluminum and copper, in fact.
Thermal conductivity, Top-5 (25C, W/m-K)

  • Diamond: >1800
  • Silver: 429
  • Copper: 401
  • Gold: 318
  • Aluminum: 237

Other commonly used materials in flashlights:

  • Brass: 109
  • Stainless Steel: 16

Welcome the night.

My Reviews   My Mods    http://budgetlightforum.com/search?

Bort
Bort's picture
Online
Last seen: 19 sec ago
Joined: 06/01/2012 - 17:15
Posts: 8338
Location: Holding the proverbial flashlight

relic38 wrote:
What texaspyro said, gold is very close to copper. Right between aluminum and copper, in fact.
Thermal conductivity, Top-5 (25C, W/m-K)
  • Diamond: >1800
  • Silver: 429
  • Copper: 401
  • Gold: 318
  • Aluminum: 237

Other commonly used materials in flashlights:

  • Brass: 109
  • Stainless Steel: 16

So your saying we should get diamond stars and pills?
How about a synthetic diamond head, does it have good emissivity (you know, for the uber rich person who has everything)?

I agree the difference would be minimal, but i would be interested in seeing it added to the thermal analysis, for thoroughness (i can be a bit OCD about thoroughness and complete data)

BTW, i now have two thoughts on M1 lumen sag, brass pill and anodized threads inside the head preventing optimum heat transfer.

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

 

 

texaspyro
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 4 months ago
Joined: 04/29/2011 - 12:43
Posts: 4593
Bort wrote:
So your saying we should get diamond stars and pills?

Actually, you want isotopically pure carbon 12 diamond… it has twice the thermal conductivity of natural diamond.

And you can buy diamond heat spreaders. They are not all that expensive. Also, I make my own thermal paste out of diamond dust.

Hikelite
Offline
Last seen: 8 months 1 week ago
Joined: 07/13/2011 - 16:18
Posts: 3888
Location: Honeyland

texaspyro wrote:
Bort wrote:
So your saying we should get diamond stars and pills?
Actually, you want isotopically pure carbon 12 diamond... it has twice the thermal conductivity of natural diamond. And you can buy diamond heat spreaders. They are not all that expensive. Also, I make my own thermal paste out of diamond dust.

How would that resist shock? I mean if you drop the flashlights and it would be a pcb, 1.6mm thick?

comfychair
comfychair's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 05:39
Posts: 6198

texaspyro wrote:
Bort wrote:
So your saying we should get diamond stars and pills?
Actually, you want isotopically pure carbon 12 diamond... it has twice the thermal conductivity of natural diamond. And you can buy diamond heat spreaders. They are not all that expensive. Also, I make my own thermal paste out of diamond dust.

Oh come on! You can't post something like that without providing a link!

texaspyro
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 4 months ago
Joined: 04/29/2011 - 12:43
Posts: 4593
comfychair wrote:
Oh come on! You can’t post something like that without providing a link!

I thought everybody knew how to use Google:

http://usapplieddiamond.com/pdfs/APheatsinksfin.pdf
http://www.diamond-materials.com/EN/products/thermal_management/heat_spr...

comfychair
comfychair's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 6 months ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 05:39
Posts: 6198

texaspyro wrote:
comfychair wrote:
Oh come on! You can't post something like that without providing a link!
I thought everybody knew how to use Google: http://usapplieddiamond.com/pdfs/APheatsinksfin.pdf http://www.diamond-materials.com/EN/products/thermal_management/heat_spr...

FFS yes I know how to use google, and I found those very pages you linked, but like those two all I found was either .pdfs or manufacturer pages, and nothing about where to buy the damn things. Which I still don't know. So thanks.

texaspyro
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 4 months ago
Joined: 04/29/2011 - 12:43
Posts: 4593
comfychair wrote:
where to buy the damn things.

They are mostly custom built stuff. These people have off-the-shelf items:

http://www.e6cvd.com/cvd/page.jsp?pageid=1001

Also, google “CVD diamond”

JackCY
JackCY's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 6 months ago
Joined: 12/28/2012 - 16:30
Posts: 588
Location: Czech

texaspyro wrote:
Actually, you want isotopically pure carbon 12 diamond… it has twice the thermal conductivity of natural diamond.

And you can buy diamond heat spreaders. They are not all that expensive. Also, I make my own thermal paste out of diamond dust.


Or very filtered beach sand? :bigsmile:

lol this thead is getting really off topic now.

I’m not sure many would buy Diamondtigons for $1000 piece.

JAS
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 11 months ago
Joined: 08/01/2010 - 17:27
Posts: 199
Location: TN, India

off topic? Here i come…..LOL

wish our cone cells in our eyes catch more light than it can.That way our lights become more efficient. No more copper,silver and diamond talks. Wink

JackCY
JackCY's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 6 months ago
Joined: 12/28/2012 - 16:30
Posts: 588
Location: Czech

Is this a jewelry thread? Coz it looks like silver, gold, diamonds now Wink

Pages