So what is going on with the Nichia219 on copper?

This is cool stuff. I gotta do something with a H1 B10 using 2S 18650 and a buck driver. I know the output will be much lower, but I want high cri more. Based in your experience so far, what is the max current you would recommend if properly heat sinked? I know I would be taking a risk, but I would like to try the max current that would most likely not blow the LED.

As seems to be the case with most emitters on copper (or even on aluminium), the maximum output is reached long before the led blows (at least with good heatsinking). As can be seen in the graph the maximum output on copper is obtained at about 3A and although the led survives at over 4A, there is no point going over 3A.

Support the cause here, the more demand Intl Outdoor sees the more likely they are to make it. It should happen as they said but it takes them quite some time to make it.

Lets spawn their thread and emails with requests of XP-G/Nichia 219 Noctigon triple. :stuck_out_tongue:

And I’m not going 2A triple or something, direct drive triple 0:)
Whether it’s going to be on alu or IO manages to make a copper triple board.

I admit this all goes a little above my head.

But if direct drive isn’t doing it for you, would 2x18350 and a buck driver not be an option?

Thanks for sharing djozz.
Very valuable info!

Hope you will do more stuff in the future if new emitters appear. :slight_smile:

That would do to get the led at 3A, but since the OTF output of a single 219 light will never exceed 450 lumen, I want the light to be small, 2x18650 is just too big. Thinking of that I can just throw in the 2 Efest 16340 IMR batteries that I have in this light, direct drive will be no problem because the batteries can not deliver more than 3A anyway at this voltage (I doubt even if it reaches 2A with them, thinking of the high Vf of the Nichia) (to be continued...)

So in the end the waiting is indeed on the triple copper board...

Hi.

Just encase you missed it, I did say 18350, not 18650. So 2x18350 will fit most 1x18650 tubes. (I have some AW IMR 18350 that work brilliantly in my Crelant lights).

Also I may have misunderstood, but are you saying you can direct drive off of 2x16340’s? i.e. direct drive from 8.4v?

And yes there is no proper driver for using Nichia 219 in general or XM-L2.
No good single or multiple cell drivers able to do boost/buck at 1.5A or 3.0A. (Efficient and programmable with a flat stabilized output curve.)

If the batteries suck enough then yes. But you will overload them, the batteries may not be able to give you the necessary current so they drop voltage a lot. If it’s some tiny and low capacity batteries, cheap brand batteries, that is quite common.

Sure you can’t do that with 2x good 26650 as they won’t drop and will burn it.

Also overloading the batteries means loosing usable capacity. You get more runtime when they are not overloaded.

Now that you are surprised I am not so sure anymore.... The voltage of 2 16340's under the max 4.4 A load that I tested will not be 8.4V but much lower, but perhaps not as low as 4.8V (the voltage at 4.4A), hmm, better be careful then .

Thank you for the response. I guess you’re saying there is no point because the lumens per watt peaks around 3A in your test. Is that correct guess? I see your graph, but your table shows lumens continuing to climb, but at a progressively slower rate, up to 4.5A. I don’t want to slow down your thread educating me. So no response is necessary. I need to go learn more about lumens and OTF. I just thought OTF was lumens net of light lost in the reflector and lens.

Yes, the lumens peak around 3A (the lumens/watt probably peak around 100mA ) In the table that is also the case, but you may have read the voltage colomn as current?, the current is the first colomn. And I am only glad when people learn something from what i write down , just a few months ago a lot of the number stuff was new to me, I was glad to learn from others as well

ha! You’re right. I was reading volts as amps. Thank you. Makes sense.

I don’t know why I didn’t realize that. The testing done at CPF showed the 219’s efficiency drops pretty fast as current rises. They only tested up to 2A if I recall.

I’m excited to drive one at 3A. I’ll report back on how it goes. Thank you for work you did here again. :slight_smile:

I managed to get my DMM working again. So I did a tailcap test on my Nichia219 Z8.

I’m a little confused by the results. Hope someone can explain it to me

Stock Trusfire Z8 with the XM-L = 1.82A at the tailcap

With the nichia219 = 0.94A at the tailcap. But with the exact same driver and batteries. The only change was the LED & star.

Does this sound right?

Unfortunately this is exactly what is the pain with the high Vf of the 219. Lineair drivers like the 7135 regulator Nanjg driver adapt the output voltage to the Vf of the led so that they provide constant current, also with the Nichia 219 (as long as the battery can provide the voltage needed -another problem with the high Vf-). But drivers like the Z8 driver, and also cheap boost drivers as found in AA-lights or cr123 lights put out a current that is (also) dependant on the Vf of the led. So the 219 with its high Vf (that is: Vf is high at the higher currents) will always disappoint. I used a BLF-mini driver in a 219 build, in the Trustfire Mini01 it puts out a satisfying 2+ amps to the XM-L, with the 219 I only get 1.3A (which is actually a nice current for the 219 on a alu board).

The Vf of the 219 is high even under 1A, for example 3.2V for for 270mA.

With the 219, if you want more light, add more 219’s. Adding current makes more heat than light. 1-1.5Amp is a sweet spot. Lumen/watt really drops fast with these.

The B10 219 Illumination Supply has are the ‘low Vf’ lot. 1Amp drive is about 3.5 volts. (edit; mine are closer to 3.3V at 1Amp)

True, but djozz’s setup on copper appears to have extended the efficiency out. The angle on the chart is still pretty steep going up to 2.5+ amps.

Yeah, take my comments with a grain; If you are after absolute max regardless of current/heat/efficiency, there is still room to push, (maybe 2-3 amp?) But the Hi CRI 219 benefit vs. XP-G2 or XM-L de-domed; these are much more suitable for pushing hard. At least you are rewarded with lots of Lumen for your efforts…

True, but it’s still interesting to explore and break into new ground. Sometimes neat little goodies are found.