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Thats a shame…
On the bright side… There will always be a next order… :stuck_out_tongue:

Its quite sweet that intl-outdoor have the T4, 80 CRI version. And that Illumination supply got the T5 75 CRI version… :slight_smile:
Im impressed with the 5$ price @ Illumination supply. 5C tint have usually been more expensive then the more common emitters (CW and 5000K NW). FT sells the old XM-L version for 6-7$…
I have several of those T4,80 CRI versions coming my way. Pulled the trigger the moment I saw some 5C tint XM-L2s. Been waiting for ages for some to pop up.

Great news!! … for those of us who like warm white… :slight_smile:

Intl-outdoor have gotten CREE XM-L2 T3 6A1 MINIMUM 80 CRI in stock.
6.55$
Its been added to the database.

Unlike most WW emitters, this is closer to neutral. Its not 80-cri typical, but 80-CRI Minimum. In that case T3 bin is the highest bin there is. Cant wait to compare it to some other emitters!

(Intl-outdoor have also gotten 18 AWG wire in stock)

I see CNQ have gotten some cheapo copper MCPCBs. Looks the be the same as others sell for same price if not slightly cheaper…
http://www.cnqualitygoods.com/goods.php?id=1901
I added them anyway…

Edit: Quantity discount is nice if you buy 10 or more…
I have yet to see some tests one these…

What’s up with the tarnished copper?

Just wondering, does a LED reel for a higher bin cost more than a one with a lower bin?

I’m assuming so, since most resellers charge more for them.

I cant comment on your previous post, but Ill give this one a shot. BTW, Im taking many numbers from my memory, I may be off on some. There is also some speculation form my side here.

On a general basis, I would not say that a higher bin emitter costs more than a lower bin.

Ofcourse U3 should generally be more expensive than T6, its better in the BIN department, and equal on the others.
6500K T6 with 65-CRI typical
6500K U2 with 65-CRI typical
6500K U3 with 65-CRI typical

But look at XM-L T4,T5 from FT. They are more expensive than XM-L U2/U3.
In this case I guess it have to do with demand and supply (or maybe just pricing)… WW T4(/T3?), is not as cheap either. These are less known emitters. Manufacturers and such often use CW, or 5000K NW. These are popular emitters, so some distributors probably buy larger quantities, making them easier to sell cheap. The emitters I prefer, that are more in 3500-4500K are usually less common, and fairly expensive.
This is not always the case though… Some of the more recent XM-L2s have been nicely/reasonable priced despite having top specs.

CRI has a lot to say in this too. XM-L2 S6(very low bin), with 90-CRI is fairly expensive.
There are also some emitters that should be cheaper than others. When looking at the more detailed XP-G2 spreadsheet we can in some cases see many emitters in the same tint range. In theory I would assume pricing should be something like this:


This is an extreme example though, but it shows the importance of knowing the exact BIN and CRI when buying certain type of emitters. Intl-outdoor does this. (I hope I have had something to do with then when requesting various specific emitters.) For the record, I have requested emitters to FT too, but none of those have been seen.

Back to the picture.

  1. 3750K - Q5 with 70-CRI typical
  2. 3750K - Q5 with 80-CRI typical
  3. 3750K - Q5 with 80-CRI Minimum
  4. 3750K- R2 with 80-CRI Minium

In the example I would say 1s emitter should be quite cheap, and the 4. emitter should be the most expensive.

When it comes to XP-G2s, the cheapest ones out there are the currently top bin R5 6500CW emitter. All the others, are usually more expensive.
You can also get 5000K NW in the same R5 BIN (still a low 70-CRI though). I would pay more for that unless I had de-dome plans or were on a tight budget.
If an emitter have same bin and same CRI, I usually consider the less cool tint to be the most expensive (and IMO, usually the nicest).

On a side note, Im a bit fed up with the majority of vendors when it comes to emitter specs to be honest. Too much BS specs, or the lack of specs, or questionable emitter tint (and bin).
KD and the others cheap “DX type” china stores seem to be quite off at times when it comes to emitter specs too, nor are their responses what I would say trustworthy compared to what you get.
FT, which I consider a fairly trustworthy vendor, have sold me XP-Gs that were not as described in terms if tint. What else differences could be in the specs? Lower bin than advertised? They seem to offer a few “higher bin XM-Ls than all the rest, and what is stated in the Cree datasheet”. Again, if that is a mistake, what other mistakes could there be? When that is said, I have been happy with all my XM-Ls from FT.
I had to mail LCK-LED in order to find out what tint and bin their NW XP-G2s were. They told me 5A tint and unknown BIN. But it certainly looked like 3C to me, certainly not anywhere close to the similar tint from intl-outdoor, which I considered to be correct in comparison with a bunch of other emitters. They also messed up description on packaging. They are supposed to be a professional LED supplier. How hard can it be to get the basics right?
LED-DNA does in some cases lack info too…

Im very happy with some of the latest emitters intl-outdoor have gotten in stock though, I should mention Illumination supply too. :slight_smile:

Generally the slightly lower bin emitters that I buy are usually more expensive than the higher/top bin CW emitters.
I would have saved a good amount of money if I always opted for the higher bin (CW) emitters.

RaceR, thank you very much for your analysis. Sorry I didn’t reply any quicker.

It seems like IO is leading the way for accurate tint and bin descriptions. I also wish that FT would write down the exact specs, or even take a photo of the ID from the reel itself. Then we would know exactly what we’re getting, given that FT doesn’t mix them up while packaging.

Thanks again for your explanation! :slight_smile:

IO buys the reels themselves, at least some of them, that is they have those markers on the IDs, rest are resellers.

So FT doesn’t buy the reels?

Do you think they wouldn't know anything about them if they would.

I thought FT was just ignoring all the “extra” info. :slight_smile:

Are the reels too expensive for them to purchase?

I do not know, for who?

IO has put video and made a thread saying they are not trusting the dealers.

Ill quote FT here.
“All distributors have confirmed that the following bins are correct: T6 4C, T4 7C, and U3 (cool white).”
This was several months ago. At that time, we knew U3 existed. But FT were the only store had the others.

In some way, that confirms that they get the info from their distributors. So if the distributor mess up something, or are not perfectly honest in order to get rid for a certain product/emitter then FT risk getting the wrong info. (There is also the chance of the store doing mistakes)

I have asked stores about bin/tint before. They have contacted their supplier but yet said that certain things are unknown. Its not confidence inspiring when some/several distributors don’t even know exactly what they sell.

Just to show an example.
When XM-L2 U2 1A P60 in arrived on the market. Kaidoman, Manafont, and Lightmalls got several similar pre-made products in stock at the same time. P60 XM-L2 drop-ins and such, they seemed to offer similar driver circuits and mode options…
Im assuming things here, but what are the odds that they all suddenly got what to looked to be the exact same product at the same time. But yet, they had different specs emitter specs… I went a little “Sherlock Holmes”…
Manafont and Lightmalls could not get the bin/tint info from their distributor (I think one of them said XM-L2 T6 BIN, and that was the info they had). They seemed to sell the same product that Kaidomain claimed XM-L2 U2 1A (highest bin at the time), despite that no other Chinese store had that XM-L2 U2 drop-in at that moment. And FT have still not managed to get that emitter several months later from any of their Chinese distributor. They managed to get XM-L2 T6, though. Which intl-outdoor also got early. But no one of those managed to get XM-L2 U2, they still have not managed to get the emitters in stock. Several members have reported inconsistency in the tint from KD too.
Im not saying that KD are not selling U2 1A bint/tint emitters, or that its not XM-L2 U2 1A in all the products they claim use that emitter. I have no proof. But I am questioning it… I have gotten false info from them before when talking with customer support.

My point is, certain stores does not take specifications seriously at all. Some distributors does not seem to know what the exact emitters specs are. Such things explains a lot of inconsistency.

FT is quite good in my book, their prices and customer support seem to kinda make up for smaller inconsistencies.
But intl-outdoor and Illumination supply seem to be at the top of things when it comes to emitters (and other tings). They are just more dedicated to the enthusiast flashlight community.

New emitters from Illumination supply added.
For XM-L2 and XP-G2 these have the highest possible CRI combined with the highest bin (for 90 CRI minimum emitters).
Very nice price on both of them too!

XM-L2 Bare S6, 7D3 (3000K) 90 min CRI
4,5$

XP-G2 Bare Q2, 7C (~2900K) 90 min CRI
3,25$

Im looking forward to try these out and compare with other emitters. :slight_smile:

+1 - totally agree IS and IOS are the only true reputable stores for parts that I would trust near 100%, just wish they had more offerings of what I want to buy.

What you want to buy? Beside XM-L2 U3 :wink:

Btw, I also have experience with LCK-LED and LED DNA. But none of those come close. Missing bin/tint info and such…
LCK-LED I had to email about info. I was told that their NW XP-G2 was 5A tint and unknown bin.
Package was labeled T6 (BIN) on XP-G2 emitter. :smiley: and 3C tint, despite that they said 5A tint in mail.

Real life color looked like 3C to me, close to 5000K. Certainly not 5A that I was told…
How is it possible to mess up that much when your store is named “LCK- LED, professional LED supplier”??
Not confidence inspiring…

Just have to say again. Im highly impressed with the price illumination supply have on those last two emitters!
Looking forward to try them out, I put some Nichia 219 in the order as well. 0:)

Out of 2nd generation emitters, combined intl-outdoor and illumination supply seem to have most of the available good stuff there is.

For me OIS lately has come very close to carrying my ideal selection of leds, I love it that they sell some 80+ CRI 4000K and 3500K XM-L2 leds now. Only two omissions: XP-G2 4000K 80+ CRI, and the MT-G2 4000K 80+ CRI. The last one has been promised by Hank not too long ago somewhere here on BLF.

Well, IOS specifically has pretty much nothing in cool white's (I've begged Hank and Craig to get U2 1A's). IS has the U2 1C, but really want the U2 1A, specially for de-doming which I'm doing a lot of lately. I've gotten beat up even for reportedly green tint in the 1C w/dome - still lots of guys out there like and want the true cool 1A's. From what I've seen 0D starts turning blue, but 1A's are the most purest white. Personnaly I like the 3C's but haven't seen anything warmer, but if I had any time for doing my own mods, I'd love to try the warmer XM-L2's but been hearing negatives when compared to the Nichia's for example. Mostly though, my rep is all about lumens and kcd, so I've been kind of stuck with the high bins.

I think Hank is/was trying to get XM-L2 U2 down towards 5700K. Should set them more apart from the typical 6500K blue tints… I don’t see how anyone could call a 6500K for pure white, A1 or whatever it is. But its all personal preference…
Now that U3 is kinda official, who knows what will happen.

Here are XM-L2 U3 emitters though…

I just saw them in this thread.

People can feel free to gamble. I have no intention of buying from them…

On the XM-L2 and XP-G2 sheet I have added a CRI column…

New emitters from IOS added:
CREE XM-L2 T4 5D2 Minimum 80 CRI Bare LED

CREE XM-L2 T5 4C BARE LED