I’m not going to pick sides between you two. I just want to thank UltimateLED for the review and comparison shots. Good info. Ultimate, have you tried those lights on far away objects? Does your assessment still stand in that situation?
The DST tube is too narrow to fit 26650’s. Can you tell me if the diameter of the 5C is larger? It would be great if you could give measurements of the internal diameter, but you can just see if the battery has more space around it in the 5c if you don’t have something to measure with.
Thank you again Ultimate for the time and effort. Good work.
Thank you for your nice feedback and comment! Firstly to answer your questions.
“Ultimate, have you tried those lights on far away objects? Does your assessment still stand in that situation?” - Yes, I have done extensive testing and comparisons between these three lights, mainly throw tests of the DST and ArmorMax 3D because the two are so close and as far as practicality, they have basically the same beam range. That being said, in every test I have conducted ranging from 10 yards to 300 yards, the ArmorMax 3D consistenly beats the DST by a noticeable amount in hotspot/illumination brightness on every distant target I have tested them on. There is even a youtube video of some other person who owns these two Defiant lights and compares them, and it is clear that the ArmorMax edges out the DST in lux/throw/hotspot brightness by a barely noticeable amount, even though the DST has a more focused and smaller hotspot. Even with the DST’s lower beam divergence, my ArmorMax beats my DST in throw to the most distant of objects they can reach. Here is a link to the other person’s video I found on youtube. ArmorMax 3D starting at 1:03, DST at 1:34 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctYkc_P6kOI
“Can you tell me if the diameter of the 5C is larger?” - No, the 5C Tactical and DST have exactly the same battery tube diameter and are both barely wider than a C battery, making them as narrow as possible for any C light’s body, with the bulk of the lights being in front of the battery tubes at the switch/head areas where they have their big reflectors. So unfortunately you will not be able to fit 26650 cells into the 5C either. The seemingly best way to go would be to buy the Energizer rechargeable C’s and a family charger online as these two lights do consume a massive amount of power and need frequent expensive battery changes to remain at full brightness. Even fresh heavy duty/zinc batteries cannot even run these lights at more than 75% of their full brightness, so they require alkalines. I did take a pic of the battery tubes for you and will post the link here. 625 lumen tactical 5C right, DST middle, and ArmorMax 3D left as a bonus for reference.
As far as the 5C light goes in comparison to the other two, it is always clearly beaten in throw by them, but not by a large amount like you might think, thanks to its overwhelming output. It can reach just about anything the other two can but simply puts a less concentrated, more wide and uniform circle of light on the desired target. In a practical situation, the 5C light would be the best out of these because for most lighting applications, it is just as important to have close-up flood capability as it is to have a long distance throw, and the 5C excells at both. It depends entirely on the needed application though, which light is the best choice. The ArmorMax 3D is definitely the toughest and best beater/work light out of these due to it having a low mode and such a thick heavy construction. The 5C is the brightest and will be the best in the field in many practical situations.
The DST is the most beautiful looking out of these and might be the most impressive to other people for its super focused laser like beam, so it is a great choice for an enthusiast of high powered LED lights as it will likely be visually the most impressive to most people. And I love the strobe on the ArmorMax 3D because it is extremely disorienting and may prove useful in some nighttime self defense situations (I do not encourage using this light for this instead of escaping to safety, just saying I like this feature).
I hope this answers your questions fully and please feel free to ask me for any more pics or comparisons you would like.
@ everyone, as far as any uncertainty concerning the throw difference between the DST and the ArmorMax 3D, I think very good evidence has been provided by my pics and the corroborating results in the video, showing the DST and ArmorMax 3D to be directly comparable in throw/lux and not the DST in the lead. Two different DST and ArmorMax 3D lights each have been compared now and posted on the internet and the results were exactly the same. This leads me to believe I do not have a defective DST or an over powered ArmorMax 3D. QC seems quite good on the Defiant line. All emitters are perfectly centered and the build quality is superb from the bezels to the tailcaps. If other people have experienced different results between these lights, then it would be interesting to see some pics because perhaps there might be some discrepancy/imperfection from model to model of the same light; i.e. some DST lights may be better than others in focus or tint, etc.
“I added some thick copper single strand wire that I stripped from the center of some heavy coaxial satellite cable. I wrapped the strands around a thin steel rod and made a few copper springs slightly longer than the stock ones already in the flashlight. Placing the new copper springs inside the stock steel ones was all that was required before reassembly. No solder required… its probably the fastest & easiest mod Ive ever done.
With Tenergy 10,000 mAh D nimh cells. Tail cap measurements 30 seconds after turn-on:
Before: 2.86A
After: 3.32A
Now Im contemplating an AR lens, if I can find one.
Significantly noticeable results for a SUPER EASY MOD.”
This simple little mod really woke the light up! :bigsmile:
Thank you again Ultimate. Very nice of you to take the time to give such comprehensive information. You make a good case. I want all 3 lights now. Someone early in the 3D thread said the 3D outperforms the DST too.
I finally got to see them at our HD. I didn't bother to buy one. I have played with the other Defiant lights and for the US, they are the brightest lights we can find in retail stores like HD. After modding several of these Defiant lights, I feel the overall quality is slightly sub standard. Plastic lenses, plastic reflectors, (many reflectors have lots of inclusions in the plating - dust and dirt particles), poor threading and soft aluminum, which means the threads start tearing up after continued battery changes. For the average Joe, they are a great light to toss in the pick up and use as needed. Kind of like what Maglite should have done to keep their market share going.
I finally saw this 5C in my local Home Depot. I had no desire to pick one up. There's just nothing about it that appeals to me. I also saw the 2 pack of 2AA lights which were marked down to $11.88.
Saw these in HD today. 8 Flash Lights and 24 Batteries
Some laugh at these, but not too long ago they were really something. THEY ARE USEFUL.
After all, the BEST flashlight is the one you have when you need one. Get these and spread them around the house.
(these are the 6-LED ones, most everyone is familiar with these)
I just picked up a DST for my father in law for Fathers Day- he was impressed with mine when I gave him a demonstration the other night. He is fairly flashlight obsessed but will never pull the trigger when it comes to actually buying something. I saw the Armor Max when I was there today with my wife and after reading this thread I might just have to run back up there right now and pick one up for myself : ) She has “allowed” me to pick out another light for Fathers Day even though I am still watching the mailbox for a Jacob A60 I ordered last weekend Cant decide if I want to just run and get the ArmorMax or pick something else from online. (I can always sneak a purchase in at Home Depot later) Don’t know if I want something for my duty-belt or for the house/car…
Wow, awesome job with those comparison images and thank you very much for your help with the resizing. It will be helpful for members scrolling quickly through the thread to see the pics and understand more about the lights from your pics. I need to use a smaller resolution setting from now on with my camera, as I know Photobucket can resize but I much prefer Imageshack which I use.
Thank you very much! Glad you got a lot out of my review. If I had to choose one out of these three lights, I am pretty sure I would go with the 625 lumen 5C. It’s quite an awesome breakthrough to be able to find and buy a light from a retail store of its caliber and output power that can be practically EDC’ed on a belt (due to being a tubular light, not a spotlight) for non-formal occasions and activities.
I am sure you would be very impressed with the Armor Max 3D. Just be sure you get the D cell model and not the 3C ArmorMax as it can be an easy mistake to make as I almost did. The 3C ArmorMax is a smaller and weaker light that would not directly compete with any of the three lights I have reviewed in this thread.
If you like the Super Thrower, then you would certainly be even more impressed by the 3D ArmorMax. I am sure you would love the strobe function, as well as the low mode which makes it a much more practical light. If you are a LEO, it may be a perfect searchlight just to carry in your car as it is tough as nails (way more shock proof than the DST), rain proof, and will compete directly with a large halogen spotlight in power. Heatsinking on these lights is so good you can run them continuously for hours and they never even get too warm. I’ll take and post a side-by-side beamshot for you later of the ArmorMax and the DST, as well as a low mode beamshot of the ArmorMax.
Lightning, here are the pics I promised. Hope they will help you in deciding if you want to go forward and pull the trigger on a new ArmorMax 3D!
DST right, ArmorMax 3D left. Notice the ArmorMax has a clearly larger and brighter spot. I tested them both at long distance once again on fresh alkalines as well earlier, and the ArmorMax defeated the DST once again at throw.
Now the ArmorMax 3D on LOW mode. Less than half the output of normal/high and an excellent level of light for most general utility purposes that won’t drain the batteries down as quickly.
I made a trip to Surplus Shed to explore some lens options.
The plastic lens measured at 42mm in diameter; but I couldn’t fit any lenses that were 42mm (or 41.5mm)… I guess my gauge is a bit off.
41mm lenses fit OK, but not a hair bigger!
Here are my experiments:
Stock plastic lens. Compared to the other pics, it looks like I was zoomed in a bit… oops!
Surplus Shed Bi-Convex L10995. I also tried the L13058 by another manufacturer which has exactly the same
specs (and price). I don’t have a picture to show you as it is 100% identical to this.
Surplus Shed Aspheric L3953
Surplus Shed Ashperic L3953… I wasn’t keen on the artifact (there’s a yellow corona if you point it at a white wall),
so I sprayed two light coats of Krylon Matte Varnish on the Plano side of a second L3953 to see if it would smooth out a bit.
Stock Plastic Lens
Surplus Shed Bi-Convex L10995
Surplus Shed Aspheric L3953
Surplus Shed Aspheric L3953 with varnish on Plano side
Left to Right:
Plastic Lens; BCX L10995; ASP L3953; ASP L3953 with varnished Plano side
What is “The Stentor”? If you live in driving distance of Philadelphia, make it a point to go see/hear the world’s largest pipe organ…
The Wanamaker Organ. The deep notes make the building vibrate, which you have to be there to appreciate considering the store’s massive construction (it’s going to be some centuries before that building starts to fall down). The music they create on that organ
is breathtaking… …and side views of the lenses
Thank you Ultimate and Strick9 for the photos. Interesting stuff. Is it just me or does the color rendition in Strick9’s photos look really good. I can’t tell in Ultimate’s because there are no browns or reds in them.
I’m using my Galaxy S3’s camera which is quick/easy. I’m sure they’d look a little better if I used a proper camera, but newer
cell phones take pretty decent photos.
The 5C definitely is brighter than the DST; but the DST still throws better (no surprise there).
One caveat I found during my lens swaps: the aluminized coating on the lip of the reflector that presses up against the lens comes
off in little flakes every time (and I mean every time) I swap a lens. It’s not breaking off the parabolic part of the reflector, so
nothing is missing/wrong when you put it back together; but it’s not a light that you would want to take the head apart regularly.
Oh yeah, you can’t stand the 5C on it’s head anymore if you keep the aspheric lens in it.
The lens sticks out past the head a bit. You can also see the O-Ring, as I can’t screw the head down all the way due
to the thickness of the lens, but it’s certainly not going anywhere.
This could have been a Maglite killer, but for one thing (and I have to agree with Old Lumens); it’s a good light for the $, but
the threads aren’t going to last for years/decades like a Maglite will. You have to pay attention when putting the light back
together so you don’t misthread it. I’m sure it could last a long time, if you’re a little more careful, but it won’t be able to
“take a licking and keep on ticking” like a Maglite. Obviously there are other good light makers besides Maglite, but there is
practically noone making decent C-Cell or D-Cell lights anymore. If Home Depot put the DST head on the 5C, and improved
the quality of the threads… they could have the perfect $25 light.
The Blloomfield, CT Home Depot did not sell one single light in the month that they have been out. Other Home Depots faired much better. This means they will either send them back or put them on clearance. I would have thought that these would have been given as Fathers Day gifts at least. When and IF they go on clearance, you can be sure I will be there.
The lack of sales at this particular store could mean 1 of 3 things.
1. Fathers are under appreciated.
2. With all the power outages over the last couple of years in the area, everybody has already hoarded enough flashlights to last them awhile.
3. People are no longer interested in large lights.
Here are pics of the display the day after Fathers Day. I placed the “Wall Street Journal” for that day on the display to time stamp the photo. I was gifted one of these lights a week ago from a friend that owed me a favor, It is a nice light. Also notice that items from the other displays did not sell well either.
BTW, Here is what my wife gave “her Man” for Fathers Day
I’ve always thought 95% of the stuff Home Depot sells in the cardboard displays (that they put in the main aisle) is junk.
The Defiant lights are decent, but most of the time when they have lights for sale in those cardboard displays, they’re the ones with a whole bunch of cheapo 5mm LEDs in the head.
Maybe the general public is catching on to this, and simply ignoring the sea of cheap/imported junk???
Example… look at that screwdriver set to the right. 65-pieces. I bet 40 of the 65 are Phillips-head/Flat-head bits. The screwdriver heads twist/bend on 1st, maybe 2nd use.
An old friend of mine used to say “There’s no quality like no quality”.
The Super Thrower sold well, maybe everyone currently in the market for a Maglite-style/size flashlight bought one already when they picked up a DST.
