BTU Shocker - $99 Free Ship at FF

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rikr
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Slewflash wrote:
zeremefico wrote:
dazed1 wrote:
zeremefico wrote:
Is BTU shocker compared, anywhere in this forum, with SP03?

Trust me, the Shocker destroyes the SP03 in every possible aspect.


This was enough clear for me.
Gonna order one.
1B & DRY, right?

That is the brightest possible option available, yes.

Are you saying that the Dry driver is the one to get? I ordered mine without and CW from previous buy. So I got the wrong one??

 

 

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Slewflash
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The other driver has a 3.8A maximum in turbo (with a 3 minute timer before it steps down) and no PWM on any level.
The DRY Driver in turbo is direct drive, meaning if you have decent batteries you can get over 3.8A easy. There is PWM on levels except turbo but it is very high.

Personally I chose the non dry driver since 3000 lumens is plenty for me. Even up to 4.5A the differences are negligible due to 3 emitters being in one host.

Slewflash 

rikr
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Slewflash wrote:
The other driver has a 3.8A maximum in turbo (with a 3 minute timer before it steps down) and no PWM on any level.
The DRY Driver in turbo is direct drive, meaning if you have decent batteries you can get over 3.8A easy. There is PWM on levels except turbo but it is very high.

Personally I chose the non dry driver since 3000 lumens is plenty for me. Even up to 4.5A the differences are negligible due to 3 emitters being in one host.

That’s cool I was starting to worry that I screwed up. Thanks for explaining it for me.

 

 

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Slewflash
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I should clarify that the differences between 3.8A and 4.5A are negligible due to increased heat decreasing the efficiency of the LEDs.

EDIT: And not to mention you need 4x the lumens to perceive 2x the lumens. A few hundred more lumens aren’t that perceivable (even another thousand isn’t very perceivable, just look at the drop from 3000 to 2000 lumens turbo to high) and just serves to drain the batteries faster.

Slewflash 

zeremefico
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I believe a DRY DD driver has a point, since sinkpads are being used.

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Tom E
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Umm, ok - I've done the XM-L2 U2 SinkPAD mods on both the BTU driver and DRY driver. Who is actually getting 4.5A on a DRY driver? Well, you can't, no way on XM-L2's on copper without doing some other things. You need to copper wire the battery carrier and use unprotected low resistance batteries. The DRY driver is a $5 driver and not worth a dime more than that: cuts out of high in 2 minutes, has poor PWM's in med and low modes. I've seen 4A on a DRY driver running XM-L2 U2's/SinkPAD's with the battery carrier mod'ed. There's the specs and then there's reality....

I'm really interested in seeing what they are doing exactly with these upgrades... Is it worth the $15? Oh sure, most likely. Will you get the improvements I get by custom mod'ing? I'm thinking not, no way, because of the poor high resistance battery carrier, fujik type of epoxy they use, no lapping, thinner wires, same drivers, etc. Actually I'm thinking the SinkPAD's with XML U3's would have been a nice option to offer stock because you could actually maintain the high amps and not have a big output drop over a short time, and still use protected cells.

Notice the posted specs still show the same amps and lumens #'s --- Ok, those lumens (3,500 on high) were never achievable stock, well proven by many. With the AR lens, it went up to 3,000 to 3,100 lumens. Full XM-L2/SinkPAD mod, we are seeing 3,500 - 3,800 lumens, 4,000-4,500+ on a direct drive driver (low resistance cells, advanced carrier mods). I'm guessing with the stock XM-L2 U2/SinkPAD version you will get 3,300-3,500 lumens, maybe. I measure 3.4-3.5A at the switch. If they didn't attempt to make other improvements, the amps will actually go down with XM-L2/SinkPAD's because of the Vf demand, so you don't get the full benefit. Think about it - 3 emitters, 3 cells - ratio is 1:1. so you got the same high Vf issues, and even with A DRY driver, you can't achieve high amps without all the other mods.

It's still a worth while upgrade, just don't expect too much from it. I don't see the getting the typical 20-25% out of it, in fact you may see as low as 10%, or less. With the BTU driver, I have actually seen as low as 10% even with additional mods - seems to vary quite a bit and that's why I'm now doing the Shocker mods with the IOS 3.5A driver.

 

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I’ve never er seen 4.5a out of the dry driver from the Shocker, but I was keeping it high for the sake of argument.

Slewflash 

18sixfifty
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Tom, which of the drivers would you pick to use with the sink pads? Still not sure I want one because of the size of this thing though.

I’m a junky, I mod lights so I can sell lights so I can buy more light to mod so I can sell lights to buy more lights to mod.

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18sixfifty wrote:
Tom, which of the drivers would you pick to use with the sink pads? Still not sure I want one because of the size of this thing though.

Which of the 2 offered? Oh boy, good Q. That's why I'd like to find out more, or see a new one. If they made absolutely no other changes, take the BTU Shocker driver because of better PWM's, 3 mins till step down, moderate improvement in output. Or, take the DRY if you don't care about the poor PWM's in med and lo, and you should get a little more output -- but who knows?? With either driver you will get improvements of making resistance mods, but the potential is higher of course with the DRY driver. I can't say I found the true cause of the extra amp droppage when upgrading to XM-L2 on copper - you may get the same effect on a BTU or DRY driver, but I've only seen it on the BTU driver - I've only done one DRY driver Shocker mod, but done a few BTU driver Shocker mods.

This is why I like the IOS 3.5A driver - simply hi-med-lo with no step down, basically goes direct drive in the Shocker configuration (3S cells, 3S LED's). I really like SinkPAD's in this light though - you eliminate the big, slow drop in output, and even if you are doing 3.4A, you are getting more output from the LED's on copper - Match's test results proved that out.

 

18sixfifty
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The IOS 3.5amp? Is that the one they say is for 7leds?

I’m a junky, I mod lights so I can sell lights so I can buy more light to mod so I can sell lights to buy more lights to mod.

zeremefico
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A lot of useful details.
Modding isn’t plug & play thing.

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Do any 18650’s fit in the carrier? Even big Panasonic protected 3400’s?

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I am looking across L.I.S right now…you have to STOP inciting me to buy this light…or you will have to make time to mod it for me…

BAM! Bought one. Too late to send it to you direct.

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18sixfifty wrote:
The IOS 3.5amp? Is that the one they say is for 7leds?

No, this one: http://intl-outdoor.com/xml-multicell-circuit-board-35a-ouput-55126v-p-543.html

 It doesn't fit exact, it's a little short in diameter and height for the contact board (wish I could find a better contact board for it), and I've been beefing up the wires used in it. I'll build up the edges with solder and extend it with copper sheet metal. Yes, it's a PITA, but as a "wow", 4500+ lumens option, pretty sic. No clue how it achieve 1,500 per emitter....

18sixfifty
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Tom E wrote:

18sixfifty wrote:
The IOS 3.5amp? Is that the one they say is for 7leds?

No, this one: http://intl-outdoor.com/xml-multicell-circuit-board-35a-ouput-55126v-p-543.html

 It doesn’t fit exact, it’s a little short in diameter and height for the contact board (wish I could find a better contact board for it), and I’ve been beefing up the wires used in it. I’ll build up the edges with solder and extend it with copper sheet metal. Yes, it’s a PITA, but as a “wow”, 4500+ lumens option, pretty sic. No clue how it achieve 1,500 per emitter….

Thanks, I’ll have to think about that one.

I’m a junky, I mod lights so I can sell lights so I can buy more light to mod so I can sell lights to buy more lights to mod.

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Try to pay and I receive a failure message in PayPal’s page.

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southcovekayak wrote:
I am looking across L.I.S right now...you have to STOP inciting me to buy this light...or you will have to make time to mod it for me... BAM! Bought one. Too late to send it to you direct.

I was looking over at you last night! Well, maybe a little west of you. Played softball, playoffs, pitched, last night at Teddy Roosevelt park in Oyster Bay on the harbor. Had a couple of beers after the 2 wins, took out my mod'ed TN31 and was lighting up moored boats out in the harbor at a pretty good distance - guys were impressed, to say the least... Still thoug, too much light around to really show it off for what a 360 kcd light can do.

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lionheart_2281 wrote:
Do any 18650's fit in the carrier? Even big Panasonic protected 3400's?

I use KP 3400's all the time - they even fit after copper braiding the springs, though they are tight. Didn't try the Pana branded protected 34's, though I got some - maybe I'll try this eve.

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What’s the physical size difference between the Shocker and the TN31 as far as weight and length? Are they exhausting to hold after a while? I know the Shocker must throw a much larger beam…right?

Tom, you DO know they’re using a quote from you to sell these things don’t you?! Smile (if you scroll down below the pics) – You’re the EF Hutton of throwers! :bigsmile:

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Where do you put the lead on this to measure the amps? Sorry….

 

 

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18sixfifty
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tallboybass wrote:
What’s the physical size difference between the Shocker and the TN31 as far as weight and length? Are they exhausting to hold after a while? I know the Shocker must throw a much larger beam…right?

Tom, you DO know they’re using a quote from you to sell these things don’t you?! Smile (if you scroll down below the pics) – You’re the EF Hutton of throwers! :bigsmile:

The Shocker is huge and it’s very heavy. The Shocker with 3 emitters is more floody the TN 31 will throw a small beam farther.

I’m a junky, I mod lights so I can sell lights so I can buy more light to mod so I can sell lights to buy more lights to mod.

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tallboybass wrote:
What's the physical size difference between the Shocker and the TN31 as far as weight and length? Are they exhausting to hold after a while? I know the Shocker must throw a much larger beam...right?

The Shocker is a freak'n workout, or, if it's normal, then the TN31 is a pocket EDC! You know, wish I had a Shocker last night with me, but the TN31 seems so small and a lightweight now - I've been handling mostly Shockers lately. It's all relative - and size does matter Smile.

Well, I'm sure you've seen some of the Shocker beam shots -- it's awesome stock, but doing 5 amps at 4,500 lumens and 223 kcd throw, I can't imagine anything close to it for it's size. Well, maybe that's for 10 minutes or so on Sam 20R cells... Wink

De-domed, you could get more throw, and if somehow someone could build a triple MT-G2, you could out do it's total output. But I think the fully modded Shocker represents the current latest LED technology very well, though it is a pretty plain looking package and simple internals - an upsized HD2010.

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rikr - ohh, just jump over the switch with the DMM leads -- it's simple (one lead on 1 side of the switch, the other lead on the other end of the switch). I do the same thing on a SS T08 when you remove the end cap. I don't think you lose much in the switch itself, from the light box measurements I've taken. I use 12 gauge leads though - very accurate, no loss.

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Ok, ok…wow! Did not expect this upon waking up!

So I’m a little concerned about this forward voltage thing with XML2. Is the $15 upgrade to XML2 on sinkpads worth it then? I’d have the stock BTU driver and mine would not be modded.

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tallboybass wrote:
Tom, you DO know they're using a quote from you to sell these things don't you?! Smile (if you scroll down below the pics) - You're the EF Hutton of throwers! :bigsmile:

Ohhh - that's just my comments I left. It's a love/hate thing for me with the Shocker, I've had some very frustrating experiences with working on them, but love the final results. To buy/own one, you really have to be committed to it's size and weight.

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Tom E wrote:

rikr – ohh, just jump over the switch with the DMM leads — it’s simple (one lead on 1 side of the switch, the other lead on the other end of the switch). I do the same thing on a SS T08 when you remove the end cap. I don’t think you lose much in the switch itself, from the light box measurements I’ve taken. I use 12 gauge leads though – very accurate, no loss.

Tom,
are you saying(looking at the picture) Put a lead at 12 and 6 o’clock Thanks

 

 

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Tom E
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Rusty Joe wrote:
Ok, ok...wow! Did not expect this upon waking up! So I'm a little concerned about this forward voltage thing with XML2. Is the $15 upgrade to XML2 on sinkpads worth it then? I'd have the stock BTU driver and mine would not be modded.

Joe - tuff call, I'm thinking it's still worth it but maybe you won't get the 20% you might expect, and even if you run on good Pana protected, I don't think you'll get the same effect as continuous dropping output as the cells drain, as you may on single cell, single emitter linear driver lights (C8 type). Just for the copper stars, the extra $15 is worth it -- copper gives you more output, longer run at higher output, better heat sinking, etc. Aluminum stars are not an option anymore for me.

I'm thinking for the stock configuration, Ric may have been better offering XML U3's on SinkPAD's, but not sure. But, you still should get longer battery usage out of the XM-L2's even if the output isn't that much more.

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rikr wrote:
Tom E wrote:

rikr - ohh, just jump over the switch with the DMM leads -- it's simple (one lead on 1 side of the switch, the other lead on the other end of the switch). I do the same thing on a SS T08 when you remove the end cap. I don't think you lose much in the switch itself, from the light box measurements I've taken. I use 12 gauge leads though - very accurate, no loss.

Tom, are you saying(looking at the picture) Put a lead at 12 and 6 o'clock Thanks

Yes!

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Tom E wrote:

southcovekayak wrote:

I was looking over at you last night! Well, maybe a little west of you. Played softball, playoffs, pitched, last night at Teddy Roosevelt park in Oyster Bay on the harbor. Had a couple of beers after the 2 wins, took out my mod’ed TN31 and was lighting up moored boats out in the harbor at a pretty good distance – guys were impressed, to say the least… Still thoug, too much light around to really show it off for what a 360 kcd light can do.

I literally missed the boat last night, friends and my son went to Greenport for dinner and fun…from the CT River. I got stuck on I-95 and they left w/o me! Well I missed a great dinner and a lovely breeze, but I didn’t miss a choppy ride both ways in an open 30’ RIB. Dinner might have repeated…

Light has an odd way of disappearing/absorbing in certain conditions over water…gotta look into that. A borrowed SST-90 looked pretty mediocre shined over our mooring area while I was waiting for their return.

Congrats on the wins, those beers must have tasted just right!

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southcovekayak wrote:
Tom E wrote:

southcovekayak wrote:

I was looking over at you last night! Well, maybe a little west of you. Played softball, playoffs, pitched, last night at Teddy Roosevelt park in Oyster Bay on the harbor. Had a couple of beers after the 2 wins, took out my mod'ed TN31 and was lighting up moored boats out in the harbor at a pretty good distance - guys were impressed, to say the least... Still thoug, too much light around to really show it off for what a 360 kcd light can do.

I literally missed the boat last night, friends and my son went to Greenport for dinner and fun...from the CT River. I got stuck on I-95 and they left w/o me! Well I missed a great dinner and a lovely breeze, but I didn't miss a choppy ride both ways in an open 30' RIB. Dinner might have repeated... Light has an odd way of disappearing/absorbing in certain conditions over water...gotta look into that. A borrowed SST-90 looked pretty mediocre shined over our mooring area while I was waiting for their return. Congrats on the wins, those beers must have tasted just right!

That's interesting bout the water effect, I'll ask around. I used to do a lotta fish'n out there out of Greenport off of Orient - Plum Gut, the Race, Pigeon Rip, all around Plum Island basically. We really like the North Fork - it's been up-scaled from all the winery biz goin on. I remember when it was all farm land, hardly anything out there.

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