Plus you can buy 5-10 of them for the same price, I know 5-10 of those are more reliable than one Surefire 
40 years ago, a group of students hoping to make a bit of holiday money turned up at a basement in Stanford University, California, for what was to become one of the most notorious experiments on cruelty in the study of human psychology.
The idea was simple - take a group of volunteers, tell half of them they are prisoners, the other half prison wardens, place them in a makeshift jail and watch what happens.
The Stanford prison experiment was supposed to last 2 weeks but was ended abruptly just 6 days later, after a string of mental breakdowns, an outbreak of sadism and a hunger strike.
Wow, B42 and I agree on something. :bigsmile:
Not so different after all, eh?
This is something I’ve never understood.
Solarforce makes, or did make anyway, a tactical tail cap (momentary on, twist for constant on). I have one on my L2T (along with a Customlite, single mode drop in). My understanding is that this is the most reliable tail cap because there are no moving parts; it’s basically just a big spring.
Now, some of Surefire’s reputation for reliability comes from the fact that most of their tactical lights using this type of switch. So how is it my budget set up will not be as reliable as any of the similar Surefires?
Those are my thoughts exactly! I dare not ask tho… There would be a monumental butthurt movement. Looking at them, my solarforce L2T would stack up nicely against them. At a quarter of the cost.
That’s what’s so funny Dale. Both camps allegedly love flashlights, but only one side is, generally speaking, tolerant of the other. Sure, we may have some fun at their expense. Sure some of us may think some brands are overpriced. But only we seem to enjoy all flashlights. Pretty myopic over there despite their claims of being a bunch of hardcore flashaholics.
+1
Surefire is the best flashlight period. That’s why I own none. LOL!
I never joined there or could stomach. That forum
+1 LOL
That best Surefire I have had was a very wet night, the bush, waterproof match and a very volatile liquid. Guaranteed to work and never fail.
Surefire? is that those overrated, old, outdated, inefficent, battery-eating electonic candles made from metal i keep hearing about they worship there ?
I bet a couple of them are lurking here too. And one night, alone at home and tipsy, some surely have ordered a beautiful C8 or something after reading a awesome review here. Now they have one, love it, and are to ashamed or frightened to tell their fellow flashlight friends.
That’s not an easy fate. 
Humor aside, I probably shouldn’t talk like this since I wasn’t an active member there. Just registered a couple of times and read some interesting topics.
But to me, the place was always somewhat un-homy and confusing. I always thought it was some kind of language barrier, felt uncomfortable at some point and left for a year or so.
But reading now all your testimonies, the place looks more like a schoolyard to me. No Hilfiger/D&G/whatever clothes - no place in the cool kids club for you, sorry.
I hope I’m getting it wrong again. If not, it’s actually a quite sad situation there I think.
I would like to take apart a modern surefire one day to check the actual quality, also electronic-wise.
To be fair, I guess many have seen Chinese lights which were somewhat dodgy. If one wants to buy a premium light that is perfect out of the box then this is surely a legitimate reason to pay a premium price.
I’m just not sure if surefire is actually that much of a premium product. 
The best I can figure. It’s a fierce loyalty to American made products. I can understand that, but wouldn’t adhere to it to the point of ignoring technological advances.
Which torches are more technically advanced? I see many Chines so called flame thrower lights that aren’t advanced, I don’t see squeezing 12 highpower leds onto an inadequate heat sink is advanced, I think the mre expensive manufacturers have a reputation to protect and must make reliable products to survive, you might buy 10 or more torches a year but you’re not the target market a large proportion of Surefires business is contract sales and the product must be shown to be proven reliable, these customers are repeat buyers.
Look at the money a carpenter will spend on a hammer, my cheap old hammer gets the job done but a real tradesman wouldn’t be seen dead using it. Good tools cost money for a reason.
Charlie Chan or Chinese super torch manufacturer on the other hand can jam a heap of leds into a light and not worry whether it lasts, his development costs are almost zero because his ebay special doesn’t have to last, how many times do we see torches with paper thin heatsinks and not even a smear of heatsink compound.
You really do need to compare like with like.
Cheap torches = fun, but are not in the same league, your all trying to compare a lada with a range rover they’ll both get you there just the lada is going to fail far more frequently. To think otherwise is stupidity.
Surefires only claim to fame (IMO) Weill its twofold. Being American made & the military contrscts they won back when Washington crossed the Delaware. Other than that, they are substandard lights. They haven’t evolved & are a waste of cash.
I’m not here to argue, your entitle to your opinion.
I was going to say the same thing 
out I appreciate your opinion. Though that last post came across a bit too direct. Thats unusual for for. I’m generally very passive…. LOL
can i interest anyone in a sure fire wrist light?
$495 plus shipping/tax for an 80 lumen light
now thats a deal!
Although you may know, Zebralight and Fenix are Chinese made-lights too. So you are not making fair comparisons.
I think some of it is just plain anti-Chinese sentiment.
lada vs range rover is a bad analogy too, I’d trust the lada before I trusted the British Leyland crap.
I’m sure surefire are pretty reliable, its just the dollar/lumen ratio is pretty poor and the bullet proof build is unnecessary for most usage, a classic maglite will, in ordinary everyday use prove just as reliable as a surefire but costs so much less.