I bought and sold 100 of them in 2012. I am presently looking to buy 100 more, and, have a pre-sale going on them. The batteries I had before were awesome and worked great. My understanding of ‘new’ is never have been used before.
Anyway, I contacted the company I’m buying from and presenting the information (not mentioning source I got it from, exactly.) I want to know what the date is of the battery I’m intending to buy, so everyone knows what they are getting. I misunderstood to think I was buying from the manufacturer which is E-One Moli. I cannot give the name of where I’m buying them, obviously.
I appreciate the time and energy put into finding this information out. (of which I should have done so myself.)
Yes - didn't want to come down hard on him, but he's got a pretty big eBay store, and things like batteries do have a shelf life but he may not be aware of that... Dunno, 'brand new' to me sounds like recently manufactured, tuff call.
Wayne - really appreciate your postings here on BLF. Please, I think we all love your integrity.
His response below. Honestly, I think it's a fair reply. I'll probably keep it and do my own tests with it on a high amp or direct drive single cell build to see if it match's or exceeds a KK ICR. I also got 3 of the SONY 50A cells on order that HKJ reviewed. Actually, what we do to CREE LED's is far beyond manufacturer's recommendations, so, not sure if the shelf life concern of the manufacturer is all that accurate as well, but I'm sure it's a factor.
"The date code is 2008. I purchases from distributor. Your information is correct with Moli. The battery I sent you is in brand new condition. If you don't like the date code, you can return it. I will refund you the money.
So far, none of customer bought this Moli battery, has problem.
Yes, I think they’d never say their cells “explode” directly, but “rapid disassembly” in a contained space would lead to that…and technically explosion could be described as “rapid disassembly”. Sounds to me like they are “a little” safer than other chemistrys, but have the same dangers.
I’m not sure any seller necessarily knows these cells dates really. It sounds like all stocks of them are either “misdirected stock” or “sales of old stock” or “re-purposed batteries”. Doesn’t mean they aren’t “new” as in unused, and if unused they may be relatively “OK” but since you cant know the origin, its impossible to tell. Seems unlikely they would hold enough charge for 4-5 years though without some kind of charging/maintenance.
Part of the nature of these cells then will be: since they discourage sales and don’t sell to resellers, all stocks will be “under the table” and probably prohibited by their contracts (I’m guessing this is why he had interest in knowing where I saw the cells for sale). So this means any “original” source of them either has no real idea where the cells are coming from and is not the “original” source, or is… less than fully truthful.
No, I dont think I was had. The seller did not mislead me at all, I never considered at all, the manufacture date, and never asked. They buy or purchased these new for their product. I think it might be that they are selling excess stock or stock they do not need any longer.
Anyway, I’m checking with them on the manufacture date, etc.
Just to clarify, all sales I’ve noticed seem to say “new” and not specify a date or “made this year” or whatnot, it doesn’t necessarily mean that anyone was directly lying to anyone (except maybe to Molicell on the original contract, but I don’t know that for certain either). And I don’t myself know if these cells can safely be used for this period or even the “11 year old manufacture” date cells above may be functional. However I think everyone should be aware they are using old cells if they choose to. Maybe someone can find out useful life of this type of cell and any problems from age from RC and Ebike people?
I know a lot of people here pulled apart a new laptop packs and have 2009-8 cells, hopefully after they showed no signs of problems after recharging and testing. But they were not kept at an “acceptable” voltage as far as I know, many around 2V. So the question is, do Molicells keep voltage longer than Panasonic 18650s, or was someone “maintaining” the battery stock, or are they really used cells? That last question, coupled with the increased energy in a 26650 and the increased Amps available from Molicells makes me hesitate and shrink away from their use in a flashlight, in series especially.
I disagree. No need to hesitate and shrink away from the 26700A Moli, any more so than any other 26650. More and more we’re seeing flashlights using this size battery. If one is careless, with any of these batteries, yes, there can be a problem.
Even though the 26700A Moli batteries we can buy now were last made in 2009, if they are unused, and stored in cold storage throughout their time in storage (which minimizes aging), these batteries will be of excellent quality. The same batteries are presently being used in new applications, golf carts, electric bikes and cars, power tools, etc, to this day, indicating they are still quite capable to power even the most demanding of applications. If a battery has a problem, even a small size Li-Ion, it can catch fire, doesn’t matter if it’s big or small. Moli 26700A, unlike most 18650’s and other Li-ion batteries, is designed to vent the gas and release the pressure reducing risk of fire, or explosion.
Here is some follow up information from a Molicell rep with some info some of you have asked about:
>>
>> The IMR26700A cell was replaced with the IBR26700A cell (max
>> discharge rate of 40A continuous), we found that high amp spikes
>> caused damage to the internal components of the cell, so it was not
>> so good for the higher end power tools it was originally designed
>> for. Lishen still makes an IMR26700A cell.
>> The IBR26700A cell is much better at handling these spikes but the
>> trade off was a slight decrease in capacity to 2.8Ah from 3.0Ah.
>>
>> Our newest cell offerings are the IHR18650C 2.0Ah Power cell which
>> can operate down to –40°C and discharges at a continuous 20A rate.
>> It can also charge at a rate of 6A continuous.
>> Another cell is the ICR18650M 2.8Ah Energy cell which can also
>> operate down to –40°C but this one discharges at a standard 1C rate.
Also, as long as the cells are treated and stored correctly, he does not seem to think there is much of a problem using the IMR26700As (soldering the top of cells is said to make engineers cringe ). Plus, (my thought), a typical flashlight isnt pushing the cells with as high amp spikes as power tools would to cause the damage he is talking about. (I’ll let you know if he corrects me on this one)
Tks. Well, their new 18650s sound great, too bad they dont sell them: “IHR18650C 2.0Ah Power cell which can operate down to –40°C and discharges at a continuous 20A rate. It can also charge at a rate of 6A continuous.” Sounds like almost the ideal cell for what many want: high A discharge and fast recharge, cost is lower capacity though. That cell should be done recharging in less than a half hour on a charger that could charge it at its fast rate! Too bad they dont sell them in small quantities.
Sound a lot like the Samsung 20R, which are available (or were available) for around $6 ea. My fastest charge rate is 1A, so I couldn’t do the quick-charge if I wanted to.
Yeah, shame they don’t sell in smaller lots. A group buy or a purchase like Wayne is doing on the bigger cell would get them distributed if they could be purchased 2 or 300 at a time.
Someone with a store could lay in a stock and be a supplier, if they’d sell to a wholesaler or retailer. It’d be interesting to find out which tools use their cell, get a tool power pack and rob the cells. Probably cost prohibitive though, as those packs can be pretty outrageous.
Might be something worth looking into though. I wonder how to find out?
I have a couple Milwaukee battery packs that need new cells. What cells should I be looking for and where can I find them?
The cells are labeled MDLI FSPE70045
). Plus, (my thought), a typical flashlight isnt pushing the cells with as high amp spikes as power tools would to cause the damage he is talking about. (I’ll let you know if he corrects me on this one)