I’ve been experimenting with this on my bike, of all things, with two S5 Convoys. One has a 1B and the other has a 5C1 emitter. As I change relative settings I can mix the colors together in different intensities. Kinda cool, or warm, or anywhere in between.
De-domed CW emitters that leans towards the green/yellow side of CW emitters, like 1B and 1C will get much more of a green/yellow tint after de-doming than the ones with more red tint. I have not noticed any difference between XM-L and XM-L2. It depends on the tint you start with.
Yes, the outcome after de-doming will depend on what you start with. Normally you can subtract about 1300-2200 Kelvin, and add more green/yellow, atleast when de-doming CW/NW. If you are de-doming WW you will end up with very WW. So yes, there is a large difference between all the various emitters. Generally, you would like to add red tones, like I have done with my two lights in this thread. That fixes the tint and makes it more white.
In real life, the eyes adapts to colors, to some extent. So if you walk around in the nature with a de-domed CW XM-L, it will not look that bad, because it renders trees and everything fairly green. And green nature doesn't look that bad. :p
If you're eyes are adapted to nice NW light with a dose of red in it, then the de-domed CW XM-L (especially 1C and 1D) will easily look as green as above. Then it looks like :Sp
I have seen worse green than the above too. When looking at the picture, most colors are more visible. But it nicely portrays the green-ish tint compared to the others, which have more white light.
I prefer to start with 1A or 1D before de-doming. But even then, its far from great.. Which is why i "fixed" the tint by adding a more red emitter.
Im a bit like you when it comes to tint. I need change... Which is why I have a lot to choose from...
BTW, the two lights in this thread are in a large beamshot comparison with other lights here.
I kinda started like that. Most times I bring two lights with me for comparison, sometimes 3 or 4. I often try a bit of mixing. If I only bring two lights, and use a bit both of them a bit, I usually prefer the combination of them.. :p
btw.
0-1-2 =CW
3-4-5= NW
6-7-8= WW
5B1=NW
The dedomed T6s I have went yellowish, maybe a bit of brown. Have you dedomed a warm white, like say T4-7C and if so what did you get?
And no green in nature is not bad, but when you are hiking in the green forest at night, adding green to the green is probably going to be an overabundance of green…which is why I didnt really like the idea previously. Its probably kind of neat to have in a city like setting.
5C1 sure looks warm to me.
[quote=B42]
Have you dedomed a warm white, like say T4-7C and if so what did you get? [/quote]
Yes I have dedomed XM-L T4 7C. Result was warmer than XM-L2 8B4. It would probably be a "9" tint.. :p Certainly no green or yellow tint in that range. It was just very warm. :p
If you walk around with an 7 or "8 tinted" light for some time, then turn on a "5 tinted" light. It will easily look more like white NW without any hint of warmth at all. If you put on a "3" tint it can even look look like CW. Eyes adapt... If you are used to various CW tints, then a "5" will look warm in comparison. But it will not look warm compared to a proper warm, and it its not warm by definition. When I say definition, im thinking about Cree datasheets.
I have put some lines in.
Right, but you were talking about adding some red, maybe dedoming 8D4 would do better?
No, it shows the differences fairly well 
Actually, I’m wrong! It shows the differences…
EXTREMELY
ELOQUENTLY
BRILL… no, no puns here.
It makes my eyeballs chuckle like a ferret with a grocery bag.
I for one would LOVE to have been able to look at, say, take your idea to the proverbial nth degree and put one of approximately each Chromaticity Bin at exactly X cm from a “Reference White” wall & shoot it with ABC camera settings, then put it out as a grid. How easy would it be to “point and shoot” instead of having to imagine the coordinates of some Cx / Cy grid? “Do I want a 3C or a 3B and how exactly am I supposed to know?” More importantly “Can I stand the weird color rings of this or that bin?” Cree should really hire you to do this…
Sorry. I’m smitten. I need more alcohol… 
huh? Not sure if im following you now..
Its probably because I wasn't clear when saying adding red. My fault.. Im talking about adding more pink/rosy/red tint.. Not warm emitters.
See this picture.
Left side= cool
Middle= neutral
right side= warm
Now, lets stay in the middle, inside the NW range. A 3S will be yellow, probably even greenish. Its in the NW range, above the black line.
A 4R will be more rosy in the tint (its got more red in it). Its still in the NW range, but below the black line. Where more of the pink/rosy tones are. (I have a tendency to just say red)
Mix a 3S and a 4R and you end up with with pretty nice and white NW light..
In terms of temperature. Mix a CW and a WW and you get NW.
In terms of color. Mix an emitter with yellow or greenish tint with an emitter emitter with more rosy tint (I normally say red,sorry) and you get more white light. That black line in the middle represent the whitest light you get in the CW, NW, and WW range.
Makes sense?
If you don't think the colors of the picture above matches the real life that well, well, don't take it too seriously.
This picture shows things in a different and more colorful way.
See that little black line in the middle "black body locus". It stretches from blue to orange. CW-WW. Like the black line I put in the picture above. If you have too much green/yellow, which is on top of the black line. Add some pink/red which is on the bottom. Then you "neutralize".
Its quite simple. If you have to much of a color. Add the opposite.
Oh I was just thinking that possibly the 8D4 dedomed would get you more into the orangy red, but maybe 4R is better for “red”. I am not familiar with how they actually look.
Ill try to make a more visual example. Rough example of the theory. Which also works quite good in real life.
BLUE: Represents a typical CW emitter.
Then, it got dedomed, became warmer (not warm, just NW looking in terms of temperature). But it also got a more yellowgreen looking tint.. Say, somewhere in the greenish circle.
You want to get rid of that tint, but maybe stick to roughly the same temperature range (Kelvin). You take a more rosy looking emitter and combine it with a more greenyellow looking emitter.
BOOM. Combined they end up in the white circle. Fairly white NW light appears.. Green/yellow-ish tint gone..
:party:
It all becomes clear then.. :beer:
If not, drink more. Maybe Ive been drinking too much when trying to explain this too. But drink some more and lovely colors appear. :beer:
Thanks for the graph and explanation,
I have been struggling to understand ANSI, but now “I have seen the light” <<< forgive him, his fingers are not always connected to his brain >>> :Sp
When the treasurer eases the financial restrictions I have a Kung that is getting an upgrade to XM-L2 U2’s, I am thinking 2*U2 1c, 1*U2 1a, to provide the power and a 1*T6 4c to provide some warmth, no dedoming as I want flood.
Cheers David
David, its nice to hear you have seen the light. :bigsmile:
Ill set up a few examples, just to shine some light on the the case.. :p
1
XM-L2 U2 1C - 65 CRI - Above the black line (normally hint of yellow)
XM-L2 U2 1C - 65 CRI - Above the black line (normally hint of yellow)
XM-L2 T6 4C - 75 CRI -Above the black line (normally hint of yellow)
Theoretical tint = 2C tint with 68,3 CRI. (CRI is not calculated like that as far as I know, but lets keep it dumb and simple)
2
You could also just use 3x XM-L2 U2 2C if its available. Then you get XM-L2 one emitter with slightly higher bin, but lower CRI.
3
XM-L2 U1 1A - 65 CRI - Below the black line (normally hint of rosy, if not purple in the CW range, certainly no green or yellow)
XM-L2 U1 1A - 65 CRI - Below the black line (normally hint of rosy, if not purple in the CW range, certainly no green or yellow)
XM-L2 T6 4C - 75 CRI - Above the black line (normally hint of yellow)
Outcome of the emitters, marginally cooler than option "2" (due to 1A vs 1C), probably more white looking light (due to mixing tints with slightly opposite tints) If playing with emitter mixing, I would probably try something more like that.
The stuff above are just simple theory. In order to get what you want, you need to know what you want to go and exactly what you have. Some prefer to stay below the black line, some above. I think most are very happy as long as they stay on the middle, with no distinct colors. As white light as possible. I believe its beneficial to mix tints that are below and over the line in order to get there, assuming white light is the goal.
There is said to be CRI benefits from mixing various colors. Not sure if its actually any visual difference. Personally don't see the point in mixing a CW XM-L with a "C" tint and a WW XM-L with a "C" tint. Then you could have just bought a typical NW "C" tint from the start and got 100% even light when looking at hotspot/spill edge, normally with just as good CRI and output if not better.
But if you started with CW emitters, and wanted NW in a multi emitter light using lots of emitters, well, buying a few WW emitters is cheaper than buying a bunch of NW emitters and replacing all.
Basically, there have to be a purpose for emitter mixing, otherwise, just stick to several of the same type, assuming you really like that type.
I have a 3rd SRK, it uses 3X 5B1. I think the tint is nice, but its slightly on the yellow side if things and I would probably not mind if overall tint was more white in that particular light. Swapping one 5B1 with a 3A might get me there... Just an example.
I think multi emitter lights offer great opportunities in mixing tints, and shaping the beam. No need to have a bunch of similar tinted lights when you can play around with nuances.
Use the high resolution ansiwhite chart to see all tints easily.
I know what you are talking about, I’m just talking about the specifics of the particular tints and how they look, wondering which actually visually is more red (I have seen neither of those tints in person). Yes, you’d use 2 different LEDs to balance the 8D4 if you were trying to match tints to get to “neutral”. Somehow my very warm T5 7C seems to “reset” my appreciation to the CW emitters later on. I’m wondering what warmer/redder would look like.
This is exactly what I've been looking for for months now, but I can't seem to find XM-L2 2C anywhere! 
I have been looking at what is available in reasonably priced stores, XM-L2 U2 is avaiable in 1a, 1b, 1c.
The BBL goes through 1a, so that will be the three U2’s.
I found T6’s in 1a, 3a, 3b, 3c, 4c, 5b, and a T4 5d2.
As I can get u2 1a and T4 5d2, on Noctigon, from the one place, IOS, those are my choices, the T4 looks as though it will warm up (maybe 2d/3a) the U2’s for a reasonable distance and (for me) cool is better for contrast at a distance.
So 3*u2 1a and a T4 5d2 :quest:
Now all I need to do is improve the heat characteristics of the kung, which will be easier than groveling explaining to the treasurer why I want to spend $25plus on a $40 light that already works :~ especially as I am waiting for three lights, 6 decent batteries, a soldering station and some other small things to arrive.
Cheers David
Well maybe she’d take a much more positive view if she knew how you were only trying to make the light safe so it didnt heat up too much and burn down the house 
Ditto, for quite a lot of us, I expect.
Has anyone ever seen a “comparo” — a set/series of pictures of a single LED model but showing the actual output of different “bins”? Maybe no more difficult than just bare LEDs shining on a white wall?
Before I buy another XM-L I want to see what I’m getting! These “NW” ones (3C and 3D, IIRC) really suck. The “NW” (~5000K) part is only at the hotspot, surrounded by a large ring of “rotten cat urine” green, surrounded by a huge ring of “lavender” or “periwinkle” or some other weird color in the ~17,000K range (measured). Even without a reflector, the effect is impossible to ignore, even in a “busy” scene (i.e. not just on white walls!)… And according to your reports here, de-doming would make things worse, color-wise, even if I didn’t mind more “throw”.
I’m assuming I got (from both CNQ and FT) some Cheap clones…
It just seems to me, since we’re primarily discussing visual effects and topics, reliable pictures would help…
Sorry about the OT, but it struck a nerve… In my work, seeing colors accurately is Very Important, and these “white” LEDs aren’t helping the Seeing.
Dim
THAT’s the LED I want!!
Question: Are you talking about “even light” with a multi-emitter host, or do you get that from individual LEDs? Say, an XM-L T6 in 3C?
Mine don’t do that. In deep and shallow C8s, in P60s, in a couple of F20s, on High in a 105c driver w/o reflector, no matter what I do, I can only dream of “100% even light”!! The CRI doesn’t even matter at this point. I’m just hoping for “monochrome”.
Sorry for all the OT chatter, your multi-emitter plan is sweet and dear to my heart, so I’ll go back to lurking until I can afford a multi.
Dim