Yup, I hope Alice reads this, and passes the thread along :D
I'm not sure how much future MTG2 lights have in the flashlight world though, in single LED lights.
I expect a multi xml light is much cheaper to make, and by the numbers, they do beat out any single mtg2 light. We've yet to see a multi mtg2 light though.
i prefer customized my light right now,its cheaper and i can chose how much current and tint i want + its educational 
+5 brazilian
Bad form = dropping f-bombs on a family friendly forum…regardless of how you feel about MAP.
+1
I really don't think we (forum members) are overestimating our importance when we claim to represent a relatively large group of potential buyers.
The flashlights we deal with in places like BLF/CPF are hardly mainstream items that the regular person would find in the local hardware store. Most of my friends and family would never even know these kinds of lights existed if it weren't for my strange (to them) hobby.
It seems Niwalker is taking a very short-sighted approach to this issue. Rather than having the brains to work with a dealer who could help them get more of their products out into the world, it appears they prefer to present artificial barriers and hide behind unspecified "policies" to protect either their "perceived quality" or the interests of the few dealers they actually have, or both.
From the information presented here it would seem they certainly haven't made any effort to work with the seller in question, preferring instead to adopt a "No soup for you" approach.
We've seen this kind of crap before and we will see it again.
As many have said - there are plenty of other companies to purchase from. For all they/we know, Ric is working on an updated version of the BTU shocker as we speak.
These idiots have clearly done themselves a great disservice and as a result, anyone I am likely to run into down here will continue to respond with Ni..who??? if their name is ever mentioned.
Yeah I’m not saying that you’ve done anything wrong, I just think that the backlash against Niwalker has been OTT when it could be down to a misunderstanding somewhere. I’d much rather give them a chance to explain themselves better and/or make it right before resorting to insults.
Interesting you should mention that as Niwalker have a couple of very interesting products in the pipeline.
We are very sorry for all the troubles here. As we said, we don`t mind GB but that has to go through an authorized dealer. We were willing to fulfill this GB with mods for US$180, with more additional discount(our cost) offered but he refused to do so.
We would like to make things more clearly here, the reason for two GB activities have fallen.
Mr. Bill called one of our sales rep one day and asking for dealer prices, so we gave him the usual prices we offer to dealers(over the phone). That`s it! There was no discussion about being a Niwalker dealer. Some days later, he started a thread here for GB.
Mr. Cellguy sent a few emails to us wanted to order some samples and he did provide his website to us for reference, we were very interested in working with him too. Again, there was no discussion about being a Niwalker dealer. We did told him all dealers must stock our products. As a relatively new brand in the market we are seeking for more business opportunities, so we offered him one of each Vostro lights for evaluation per his requested. Some days later, GB started again.
We were not aware about these two GBs as we were not informed and have no details, GBs should be properly organized. We are very sad to see the insults on one of the most friendly forum. We have made copies of Fxxx words for our record.
Hopefully we have explained well to you guys. Please let us know if you have any other questions.
sounds like a miscommunication
i was agitated before but…
i am over it
So, if cellguy (e2fieldgear) commits to becoming an authorized Niwalker dealer then you would be happy to let the group buy proceed?
By ‘with mods’ do you mean $180 including the after-sales work conducted by vinhnguyen, for which he would be paid $65 of the sales price himself?
I wasn’t happy to see the insults either, as were a couple of other members who made that clear. I do understand some of the posters’ frustrations, as the MAP issue has built up now over a number of cases, but I feel you were harshly treated before being given a fair chance to explain your position. I don’t believe that the insults represent the attitute of the majority of BLF members, even if most of us don’t like MAP.
Nothing personal against Niwalker, but they are now on my short-list of MAP-obsessed, enthusiast-averse branders of flashlights. Like other intelligent consumers here, I will not pay MAP for a flashlight.
As long as enthusiasts and consumers continue to research and share information on the better value lights from the more consumer-friendly choices out there, we win. The premium-branders that wish to remain relevant in the enthusiast market will have to offer some flexibility, since the market is largely driven by enthusiasts. They do not have a monopoly on flashlights, so it will be consumers who determine what their product is worth - not the ‘branders’. With so many choices being available in this arena, those who attempt to operate according to yesterday’s rules will likely go the way of the dinosaur.
Among forums across the web, from deal sites to the other various forums where consumers learn to get the most bang for their buck, the MAP-obsessed branders should receive less and less recommendation to buy.
Don’t get me wrong, neither will I. But that won’t stop me from buying the same model if/when I find it at a cheaper price, whether that is advertised or not.
I wouldn’t say Niwalker are MAP obsessed, it seems that they pulled the GBs so far because they weren’t being set-up by anyone who had yet made the commitment to become a Niwalker dealer and therefore provide the after sales support. I certainly wouldn’t call them enthusiast-averse either, they have a couple of very interesting products in development and have actively taken enthusiast feedback on board in certain aspects of their product design both for current and those coming products.
What was the cellguy GB price?
So we can judge Niwalker offered GB price. “GB with mods for US$180”.
I have reached out to Niwalker to see if an agreeable solution can be reached. I am willing to work within any manufacturer’s MAP guidelines. Offering a coupon code without advertising a specific discount amount is a common and acceptable practice that we see everyday. I am not willing have a manufacturer control the final sale price on inventory I am required to pay for and stock if MAP has been followed to acquire the sale. The GB itself was not the issue. It was the final sale price and Niwalker’s assertion that I was violating their MAP by offering a final sale price that was too low.
They offered two conditions where the GB could continue:
1. Offer a 10% discount off MAP.
2. Offer Vinh’s mod as a bundle at MAP.
I did not agree to either option because how is an unadvertised discount in violation of MAP but an advertised discount is not? Additionally, the mod was intended as an option not a mandatory requirement and Vinh and I had no agreement or system in place to able to facilitate a mandatory bundle.
while its nice to see they are trying to work out a deal , i agree with you
if they are offering #2 as a solution - why not just ship the lights directly to him? doesnt make sense.
Bottom line is these things need to be worked out in advance with full knowledge behind closed doors. Airing this stuff in public is unprofessional and typically ends poorly for all concerned.
The purpose of MAP is to ensure dealer gets enough profit from each sale so that the dealer can be expected to provide after sales support and possibly handle some warranty issues?
Is that how it actually works with MAP brands or does the warranty on some not live up to what it should for the price?
quote: “The GB itself was not the issue. It was the final sale price and Niwalker’s assertion that I was violating their MAP by offering a final sale price that was too low.”
This is the meat of the matter guys. Remember doingoutdoor, fasttech and now e2fieldgear……
Coupon codes are all over the place. Cellguy’s point about it is correct.
While I’m glad to see that there’s an obvious effort being made to straighten out what seems to have been, more or less, miscommunication I do understand the frustration on some of the folks part. I am not in favor of MAP. Different dealers have different overhead issues, different needs. So it would stand to reason that one dealer may be able to offer a better price as he has less involved in stocking the product. That’s business.
As far as the language used earlier today, it’s my understanding that the use of profanity is one of few ways to get banned on this forum. As this is all an open forum, family oriented, it should be fairly black and white. The people willing to blatantly break the simple rules of the forum don’t belong here. Let your anger get the best of you, and be gone. My son loves lights too. He likes the pictures he sees here. He’s 6 and doing a great job reading, on a 3rd grade or higher level. Goes without saying that I don’t feel I should have to explain to my child what a word or a gesture seen on this forum means, and why he shouldn’t use it.
I would not use the type approach we witness earlier, but then I have a business to run as well. Matters not one whit whether morning coffee has been had or not. I suspect there will be some repurcussions to some of todays conversation.
For me, the product itself does not swing me over to Niwalker. Even if modified, some of my major issues with the style and interface are still there. So it’s not the light for me. Decent looking light, nice anodization, I personally don’t like magnetic rings. In heavy use, in my opinion, those rings can get jammed and make the light inoperable. Not an option. Like so many other things, it’s difficult to get all of one’s personal likes in the same product, lol. That’s what makes this all so interesting, is it not? 
+1
And why I'm glad my comments have been "saved"... hopefully they make it to whomever is in charge over at Niwalker, and they take note.
In general I prefer to be extremely civil, however there are times when only the harshest response possible will garner any reaction. (It's pretty hard to lose the meaning of that word in translation, or misconstrue it's use as anything but an insult.)
Had the response been milder, would anyone pay attention? Or would they write it off as another "oh well, that's too bad they have MAP" situation and move on?
Now Niwalker is here trying to save face. They are paying attention to what's going on, to people's reactions, and hopefully realize they didn't only make themselves look bad but also their dealers by association. Not good for a new brand starting out.
hmm… i never even heard about Niwalker lights before…just heard it from this GB, i was about to check it when i realized, there’s really nothing special about the light.
it’s just another variation of TN30 or TK75… but with TK75 XML2 U2 selling for $161 at WB… why even bother to buy unknown light? …just my $.02
thanks for saving my money 