So, if cellguy (e2fieldgear) commits to becoming an authorized Niwalker dealer then you would be happy to let the group buy proceed?
By ‘with mods’ do you mean $180 including the after-sales work conducted by vinhnguyen, for which he would be paid $65 of the sales price himself?
I wasn’t happy to see the insults either, as were a couple of other members who made that clear. I do understand some of the posters’ frustrations, as the MAP issue has built up now over a number of cases, but I feel you were harshly treated before being given a fair chance to explain your position. I don’t believe that the insults represent the attitute of the majority of BLF members, even if most of us don’t like MAP.
Nothing personal against Niwalker, but they are now on my short-list of MAP-obsessed, enthusiast-averse branders of flashlights. Like other intelligent consumers here, I will not pay MAP for a flashlight.
As long as enthusiasts and consumers continue to research and share information on the better value lights from the more consumer-friendly choices out there, we win. The premium-branders that wish to remain relevant in the enthusiast market will have to offer some flexibility, since the market is largely driven by enthusiasts. They do not have a monopoly on flashlights, so it will be consumers who determine what their product is worth - not the ‘branders’. With so many choices being available in this arena, those who attempt to operate according to yesterday’s rules will likely go the way of the dinosaur.
Among forums across the web, from deal sites to the other various forums where consumers learn to get the most bang for their buck, the MAP-obsessed branders should receive less and less recommendation to buy.
Don’t get me wrong, neither will I. But that won’t stop me from buying the same model if/when I find it at a cheaper price, whether that is advertised or not.
I wouldn’t say Niwalker are MAP obsessed, it seems that they pulled the GBs so far because they weren’t being set-up by anyone who had yet made the commitment to become a Niwalker dealer and therefore provide the after sales support. I certainly wouldn’t call them enthusiast-averse either, they have a couple of very interesting products in development and have actively taken enthusiast feedback on board in certain aspects of their product design both for current and those coming products.
I have reached out to Niwalker to see if an agreeable solution can be reached. I am willing to work within any manufacturer’s MAP guidelines. Offering a coupon code without advertising a specific discount amount is a common and acceptable practice that we see everyday. I am not willing have a manufacturer control the final sale price on inventory I am required to pay for and stock if MAP has been followed to acquire the sale. The GB itself was not the issue. It was the final sale price and Niwalker’s assertion that I was violating their MAP by offering a final sale price that was too low.
They offered two conditions where the GB could continue:
1. Offer a 10% discount off MAP.
2. Offer Vinh’s mod as a bundle at MAP.
I did not agree to either option because how is an unadvertised discount in violation of MAP but an advertised discount is not? Additionally, the mod was intended as an option not a mandatory requirement and Vinh and I had no agreement or system in place to able to facilitate a mandatory bundle.
Bottom line is these things need to be worked out in advance with full knowledge behind closed doors. Airing this stuff in public is unprofessional and typically ends poorly for all concerned.
The purpose of MAP is to ensure dealer gets enough profit from each sale so that the dealer can be expected to provide after sales support and possibly handle some warranty issues?
Is that how it actually works with MAP brands or does the warranty on some not live up to what it should for the price?
quote: “The GB itself was not the issue. It was the final sale price and Niwalker’s assertion that I was violating their MAP by offering a final sale price that was too low.”
This is the meat of the matter guys. Remember doingoutdoor, fasttech and now e2fieldgear……
Coupon codes are all over the place. Cellguy’s point about it is correct.
While I’m glad to see that there’s an obvious effort being made to straighten out what seems to have been, more or less, miscommunication I do understand the frustration on some of the folks part. I am not in favor of MAP. Different dealers have different overhead issues, different needs. So it would stand to reason that one dealer may be able to offer a better price as he has less involved in stocking the product. That’s business.
As far as the language used earlier today, it’s my understanding that the use of profanity is one of few ways to get banned on this forum. As this is all an open forum, family oriented, it should be fairly black and white. The people willing to blatantly break the simple rules of the forum don’t belong here. Let your anger get the best of you, and be gone. My son loves lights too. He likes the pictures he sees here. He’s 6 and doing a great job reading, on a 3rd grade or higher level. Goes without saying that I don’t feel I should have to explain to my child what a word or a gesture seen on this forum means, and why he shouldn’t use it.
I would not use the type approach we witness earlier, but then I have a business to run as well. Matters not one whit whether morning coffee has been had or not. I suspect there will be some repurcussions to some of todays conversation.
For me, the product itself does not swing me over to Niwalker. Even if modified, some of my major issues with the style and interface are still there. So it’s not the light for me. Decent looking light, nice anodization, I personally don’t like magnetic rings. In heavy use, in my opinion, those rings can get jammed and make the light inoperable. Not an option. Like so many other things, it’s difficult to get all of one’s personal likes in the same product, lol. That’s what makes this all so interesting, is it not?
And why I'm glad my comments have been "saved"... hopefully they make it to whomever is in charge over at Niwalker, and they take note.
In general I prefer to be extremely civil, however there are times when only the harshest response possible will garner any reaction. (It's pretty hard to lose the meaning of that word in translation, or misconstrue it's use as anything but an insult.)
Had the response been milder, would anyone pay attention? Or would they write it off as another "oh well, that's too bad they have MAP" situation and move on?
Now Niwalker is here trying to save face. They are paying attention to what's going on, to people's reactions, and hopefully realize they didn't only make themselves look bad but also their dealers by association. Not good for a new brand starting out.
hmm… i never even heard about Niwalker lights before…just heard it from this GB, i was about to check it when i realized, there’s really nothing special about the light.
it’s just another variation of TN30 or TK75… but with TK75 XML2 U2 selling for $161 at WB… why even bother to buy unknown light? …just my $.02
Just saw this thread for the first time today. I have the MT-G2 and XM-L2 versions of the Vostro’s. I actually have the XM-L2 version in transit to Tom E right now for him to mod the hell out of it to see if it can beat the TN31. It sucks that Niwalker has burned their bridges and left scorched earth behind because I genuinely think the BK-FA01 is a better light than the TN31, which I also own.
In regards to the harsh language: I have no problem with it. People here are very passionate about their hobby and expect good customer service. If you feel like you need to tell somebody to have a violent sexual liaison with themselves to convey your feelings, I encourage it.
Here’s a P word to add to your recordings . . Your approach and story is a load of pooh (and I don’t mean Winnie) … After you sell a light, your deal is done. You don’t need to be informed - you just need to be honorable to sell to the dealer at the price and written contract terms when you committed. The person who then owns the light sets their price since it become their property to sell. And how does one of your dealers have the right to decide what their competitor is doing? Who the H@LL is that? You already got your money and neither you or the other dealer have the right to tell someone what they can sell a light for unless it is on a mutually agreed contract.
I and many others now won’t buy your product - PERIOD. End of sentence and end of your ability to sell us copies of lights. That the P word you should be aware of.
Integrity is the matter at hand.
If we stand by and allow this behaviour to continue unabated and without recourse, they will see it as acceptable and degenerate further and further until we do jack up over it.
I for one, will NOT stand for such underhanded, unsavoury, discriminatory, defamatory and dishonest behaviour and rather take a moral stand at my personal expense to demonstrate this.
