Confront me for answers before making any accusation towards me!
In almost any story, there is an aspect that is unknown to the majority. Something that got left out of the telling. And, many times, a crucial element to the play of things.
We don’t know the many specifics of this one. I have to agree with Ryan, it doesn’t look good on face value.
Vinh was going to help cellguy out, now he’s the one doing the deal? There’s obviously a lot missing in our story.
And still, there’s so much to be learned here…
Hi Wayne,
In all fairness, this debacle has nothing to do with you at all. So please don’t worry about yourself.
If you try to read several threads in this forum, this is all about the effects of MAP to flashlight buyers who just wanted to have a better deal for their money. It has been raging here every now and then, everytime the MAP policy comes into play.
Most of us here are just disappointed because several group buys had been cancelled, some dealers have been punished, all because of MAP policy which to some of us has deprived us of the opportunity to buy lights at a much lower price.
In fact, I was only minutes away from ordering with Cellguy’s GB and have it addressed to you for modding when Cellguy suddenly announced the cancellation. (What held me back was between the choice of LEDs!)
So go on with your whatever arrangement you have with any manufacturer and don’t worry about the discussions here, for it’s never directed towards you.
EDIT: cancelled GBs
https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/19123—-(the first cancelled Vostro GB)
+1
I still do not fully understand what is going on behind the scenes with niwalkers dealings with cellguy etc.
frankly i dont care either, because it doesnt really matter or affect me anymore.
I got quite frustrated at niwalker for pulling the plug on this and the way they handled it.
Group buy is back on now through vinh, I can get my light now if i want…
no problems as far as im concerned 
I can clarify things a bit, but be assured Vinh is not cutting me out or going behind my back here. After the initial meltdown of the GB I emailed Niwalker to see if a solution could be reached. I reiterated my stance I was not violating any known MAP policy and I would not allow them control of the final price. However, I recognized it was their prerogative on whether or not to sell me lights.
Vinh did indeed contact me to see about the availability of purchasing a quantity of lights. At that time I had no idea how bitter Niwalker was or was not about the fallout of the GB and just responded that I would reach out to them and see if they wanted to do business.
Niwalker did respond with an initial willingness to fulfill the order provided the lights would be sold at or above MAP after Vinh’s modification. They also mentioned that Vinh reached out to them direct with an order inquiry. This was last Thursday and the first day of their Autumn Harvest Celebration so Tony said he would provide a quote when they returned to the office.
I did respond to Vinh with this information and it sounds like he just missed that email. I simply wanted to know if he preferred to work through me or direct with Niwalker. If Niwalker was willing to sell direct to him there was no incentive for us to partner - I would not be able to add any value to the deal and there are no hard feelings.
While Niwalker could still provide me the proforma invoices I requested, I suspect any business partnership we may have had is now over. The last note in Tony’s email requested I edit the Title of this thread removing Niwalker’s name. I declined to do so and have not heard back since.
Well to the crux, the question is whether Niwalker’s alleged use of a ‘MAP’ policy is a get round to enforce a retail price maintenance, anti competitive policy (again alleged).
RMP in Europe and I believe the US, was made illegal many years ago though MAP (in its correct form) was not banned.
Therefore the question is; has Niwalker with the action it has taken in this instance (that) we are discussing here, used MAP to enforce an anti competitive action?
IF they have done so, and you become a dealer for them are you tacitly agreeing to their actions?
May be worthwhile investigating in more detail their actions and policy’s before becoming one of their dealers or indeed selling any of their products.
I personally do not believe that you were in any way instrumental in the collapse of the GB and hope that at least in this sorry affair, it has been established, that you are not the one that complained, and that is made apparent to all.
It would be good to actually find out who the parties were, that actually complained so we could boycott them. I will be boycotting any Niwalker product in the future for their actions in negating this GB, as I would hope others would do so too.
Really!! the way Nilwalker have acted and you don’t care? And no problem!! ???
I will be writing to a local MEP to find out if it would be possible to ban commercial imports from companies that misuse MAP as a back-door to enforce RPM in the EU. Prosecuting them would seem impractical as they (companies) don’t appear to have actual trading headquarters in the EU.
Maybe others living in the US might raise the same topic with local authorities over there, as anti competitive practices are I believe very much frowned on. Would these days the Better Business Bureau get involved?
Edit: ‘commercial’ not ban on personal imports
yes, i dont care.
i got upset because they were interfering with perfectly legal/normal practice, preventing me from getting a good light at a good price
i am now getting the light i wanted, at a good price
anything else that happened in between is pretty much inconsequential from my point of view…. other peoples problems - etc.
Dear oh dear, Suggest you think that through to what it actually means for all of us in the future including YOU.
Good luck with the ‘I’M alright jack’ stance………
I'm not sure I'll proceed, but I joined before knowing what it was. (Safe bet it would be something good considering Vinh's other lights.)
My stance remains the same, I'll never buy a stock new Niwalker. Ever.
A modded light, secondhand, that's altered (which is what that GB is) that I'm not so sure about. It benefits the modder, and at present the modder (afaik) has no obligations at all to Niwalker except those he already met, in sending them a payment.
It's abundantly clear MAP was used strictly as an excuse since Cellguy never violated MAP policy.
MAP policy is by it's very nature in reference to the Maximum Advertised Price. Cellguy never advertised the lights at below Niwalker MAP.
Niwalker simply chose to be exceedingly stupid, and shortsighted in refusing to sell to him.
Stinky situation becomes even more smelly.
Niwalker somehow managed to create a “Niwalker hater” here, Fenix wasn’t able to achieve that, Nitecore and Crelant didn’t manage to do that either but Niwalker somehow did it, so congratulation Niwalker…
If I was a player in this market I wouldn’t go nowhere near the Niwalker because that could/would seriously damage my reputation.
it means nothing for any of us here as far as i can tell
vinh has already paid for the lights - niwalker could care less at this point what he does with them
it doesnt matter if i choose to buy one from vinh second hand (modded) or not
one of the other 10 people waiting in the “standby” queue get one if i withdraw - niwalkers already got their money
I will never ever buy this piece of sh… called niwalker. Ever.
Guys,
Please think before you pass judgement on the innocent. Vinh did nothing wrong. He is just trying to mod a light that may very well be the meanest MT-G2 light on the market and a modded XM-L2 version light that may very well beat his TN31 mod. He’s striving to take us places in the LED world that not many have done as of yet. So think about that and think before you hammer someone wrongfully.
And that’s to those who it applies.
Being relative new, I’m learning.
That said, my Solarforce K3 is now producing some 3060 lumens on 2 18650 cells through a modified Q-Lite driver. The emitter is getting a calculated 5.79A. 3 very useable modes, with options.
Works for me. ~$80.00
I haven't checked that list, but I'm not going to be on it.
I just read this thread and I think some of you guys exaggerating things a lot.