2014 Project Build- Cree Trifecta *Bucket's C8/Cu data in spreadsheet*

XML2 4C is the closest match for the MTG2's tint, 3C/3D look much cooler in comparison despite what the specs say.

Ok, sick or not, I got started on these 3 lights. Being always eager I started in the middle, lol. I went ahead and used Ryan’s pills, got each emitter in a light with a stock Qlite driver (power wise, of course, as the MT-G2 driver is modified)

Initially, using rested batteries and not going to any extremes and with each light pulling right at the 3.04A (2.91, 2.96, 2.98) I ran em through the lightbox for a start lumens check. Both smaller emitters are 1A tint bin. But they look different. Go figure.

And this is what I saw…

The XP-G2 showed me 745 OTF at start-up
The XM-L2 showed me 1049 OTF at start-up
The MT-G2 showed me 1756 OTF at start-up

Both smaller emitters were powered by a well rested Sanyo FJ lap pull. The MT-G2 was powered by a pair of Efest IMR18350’s, also well rested. I’ll work on getting some in-house beamshots of beam profile to show how the 3 compare…

Nice one Dale. I must of missed this thread. There will be a second stage to these builds. After you have finished with the recommended current you will set them all up with a 3.04 amp 3175 drivers. The one for the MTG-2 will have to have the mod done to it. You are a dead set legend for doing stage one and two. Yay.

I was going to go with the stock aluminum pills and stock Qlites, but went ahead and put Ryan’s copper pills in em right off the top. The Qlites are still at 3.04A though. Stage 2 will get some power level bumps to show how far these emitters get separated when push comes to shove. :slight_smile:

I need to get some outside beamshots, different range and I’m looking for a more serious setting to utilize the differences. By the time I get to stage 2, the MT-G2 will be daylight to the others beams. As you well know, :wink: won’t be able to go too radical, as the pills only allow chip stacking on the spring side. But that’s ok, I can get 8 more on there for 16 total on the 2 big emitters, should be fun watching them come alive. :slight_smile:

Plan on de-doming the XP-G2 and XM-L2, slice and dice the MT-G2. Might’s well, right?

I may still put qlites in the stock pills, with the XP at 1.5A, and the other 2 at 3A to abide by the datasheet. Then I’ll have the recommended levels in the stock pills, hot rodded copper pills as an ultimate comparison. Like I said, I kinda jumped into the middle. lol (so in the end, it’ll be more a 3 stage test)

That sounds like stage 3 and 4. Do we take of at 10?

I've got to say I much prefer the wall of light effect the MTG2 gives. When I'm using a flashlight I actually rarely look directly at what the light is pointed at, but normally off center slightly. This is usually because I want brighter side spill so I can see the surrounding area, but the hotspot required for that level of side spill is too bright to properly see what I'm looking at.

Sounds odd, but because the MTG2 has a much less defined hotspot, but still a reasonably tight beam (as in it's not all flood) it fulfills my needs well.

- Matt

Thanks for your efforts! :beer:

I think you’re pulling a double Steve, gotta run though, see ya! :slight_smile:

I have to agree Matt, I really like seeing …well…everything! The way the MT-G2 does it it’s just great all around. That tight hot spot of the XP footprint could be good for hunting or tracking though, wouldn’t disturb as much on the periphery and wouldn’t show you as much either. So each one would have a place with the XM footprint being the general all rounder. I had the shutter fast in an effort to show the hot spot, which there’s not much of in the MT-G2. In reality, they were much better at lighting up the room, especially the big guy!

I knew I was going to like seeing em side by side, but I’m gonna have to sell em off in the end to keep my wife from scalpin me! She’s got enough Native American Indian in her blood she can get scary! (Her great grandmother’s name was Faye Tiny Wolf, Mary’s 5’ tall and act’s 8’2” sometimes!) :slight_smile: {just kidding, she’d never scalp me, but it’s always much better to make the attempt to keep the peace :wink: }

Excellent work. :crown:

nice set of test C8's. I'll stay around for the final stages....

I think its worth to mention that you are comparing a 21,8$ emitter that is fed around around twice the energy of the XM-L and around 4 times the energy of the XP-G2. And you are comparing them indoors at close range with wide angle. Which is where a floody MT-G2 shines.

For 21,8$ you could get 10 XP-G2s. I wonder which would look brighter between 10 x XP-G2s @ 50W vs say an MT-G2 @18W.. 0:)

Just taking a look at the other complete other side of the coin, which is not directly relevant for this test.

I think we all know the winner of this exact comparison when it comes to light output.

I don't mean to sound negative though. Its a great comparison, and I look forward to the rest. It will be interesting to see runtime tests and everything you come up with. Seeing this stuff side by side is very nice.

Btw, as a little bonus on the side for us. Could you include a hotrod triple XP-G2 light and name the optics too? :)

Well Race, it’s designed as a test to show the various pros and cons of the 3 popular Cree emitters…as such there is no winner. And the first shots were indoors mainly because it’s freakin cold outside and I’ve had the Flu for a week. I do intend to show different beamshots so that there will be evidence to help someone pick which emitter would serve them best in their particular need. Which is really the whole point here. For those of us that have popped different emitters in and out of our favorite hosts for a while, there’s nothing new here. But for someone just joining our insanity this can be a very helpful comparison. Or at least that’s my thought process.

Not sure how you figure the XP-G2 is getting less energy fed to it than the XM-L2? Both are running the same cell and driver. The XP-G2 actually has a higher Vf, so if anything there’s more energy flowing through the XP-G2 than the XM-L2. Right? At any rate, the whole idea is to show the differences, good and bad, between the 3 primary emitters from Cree.

I do have a few very nice triples, 2 utilizing the XP-G2 R5 2B emitter. You would like to see one thrown in against these 3 C8’s for beamshot comparison? I can tell you that the Carclo 10507 Narrow Clear optics will compare favorably to the MT-G2 spread of light. Running at 3.75A, making 1173 OTF @ 30 sec, very comparable to the MT-G2 at 2.96A even though the big boy is making more total lumens by a wide margin.

Yes, the MT-G2 uses 8.4V to run it. Yes that’s an “unfair advantage”, or would be if this were a contest. But since it’s only a side-by-side comparison, with further testing to show how poorly cells will hold up to it’s abuse, the relevance still remains that these are the top 3 offerings from Cree as we use them in our flashlights. Each will have a totally different user set, as each will serve a completely different end line purpose. Perhaps I’ll throw in an animated GIF, showing how the tighter emitter puts a fire in the midst of the wide throwing Big Dome. :wink:

First things first, I have to modify the switch assembly in the MT-G2 C8…the 2 18350’s are too long by some 5mm and I need to gain some room so that the light will fully assemble and maintain the water tightness of the o-rings. I’ll get some more solid readings today once that’s accomplished, and hopefully some beamshots tonight, weather (and Flu) permitting.

If you don't mind, lets see your brightest triple. You choose the optics.

And don't get (more) sick by doing outdoor beamshots for me. There is no rush..

10507 has a HUGE hotspot (and almost zero spill), 10511 even with the frosted front surface still there is more like an OP reflector, smaller spot and more spill. I don't much like the 10507.

Nice comparison. I like the floody MT-G2 as well. As discussed, it is being fed a whole lot more power at the moment, and the run time will be a lot shorter. Comparing the XM-L2 with 8 added chips and the MT-G2 with the stock 8 could be more “fair”, I think. The MT-G2 will probably be at a small disadvantage due to less power capacity of 2x18350 compared to 1x18650. But on the other hand it should be a bit more efficient, as it’s not overdriven.

A triple XP-G2 or XM-L2 would be a nice addition to the test, as that would be a lot more floody and run the emitters at a level where they are more efficient. Running 3 XP-G2 in parallel at 3A or 6A total is a bit closer to spec. It would also not have the Vf issues that you would get at 6A. Maybe you can add 2 chips to the XM-L2 driver first and compare that to the triple XP-G2 you have at 3.75A? If the triple XP-G2 can easily be boosted to 6A, that would be every more awesome :).

Anyway, I don’t have any experience modding flash lights (yet), so not sure whether my ideas are correct or realistic.

My suggestion in PMs was to run them all at the same 15 watts, so maybe that's coming sometime soon.

That would be interesting too. Would be a lot of hassle for Dale to do though.


I checked your spreadsheet Dale. That is a nice information!

On top of the beamshots, numbers also backs up why XP-G2s in a C8 sized reflectors (or larger) are not for me. Not much more throw but considerably less output (lumen) at similar amps. And the XM-L2 can still go way higher and gain more output compared to what the XP-G2 can gain.

Again looking forward to the rest. Keep up the good work! :beer:

But Race, it all depends on WHY you need a light in the first place. We have a lot of hunters, so I’m sure they know exactly what I’m talking about. The hunters day starts off with a very early morning trek out to the deer stand. A pinpoint of light to watch the trail, without a lot of spill to have the whole forest awake, will easily allow that trek to be minimally invasive. The XP-G2. They get a good shot, bag a deer that runs. The XM-L2 will give plenty of illumination to follow the blood trail and watch out for obstacles. Once to the fallen game, the MT-G2 will light up the scene for field dressing that beauty! Different situations call for different lights, or the same light with different outputs. :wink:

15 watts each would of course be doable, but it’s just not practical. Of all the modders threads I’ve read here, including yours Comfy, I don’t recall ever seeing anyone find Vf on an emitter, divide a projected wattage by that Vf to determine amperage to set up the driver for and figure in some losses so the actual doesn’t fall short. Who does that? 15 watts would be at the top of the XP-G2’s game at around 4.2A, while the MT-G2 would be strolling along around 2.4A. But of course, I like a challenge as much as the next guy so I might actually try to pull it off….might being key.

I’m working with the straight up easy to duplicate drivers, stack some chips like everyone does and run it on copper for better hang time. If the test isn’t real world, what good is it? I guess if you have a bench power supply and bench heat sinks to find what a particular emitter requires to make a particular wattage, that’s all well and good. I don’t. I don’t have a wealth of electrical knowledge to enable me to ferret that kind of thing out, I DO have the desire to see amazing output, and like bumping a driver for all it’s worth to get there.

Race, an XP-G2, 1A tint, de-domed, in a big reflector, easily out throws an XM-L2 driven harder. All the light is going into the hot spot, or the vast majority of it, such that 600 lumens outdoes 1000 as far as the eye is concerned. Got a build coming up where I’ll do just that in a copper pill for an HD2010 at probably 4.5A or better. We’ll see how that looks. :wink: Some have said that it’s easier to see out to where the hot spot is, without all the spill contracting your pupils. Makes sense in a way, but you’re still looking at the light, so they’ll still be contracted as far as I can tell.

Like with most everything else in life, compromise is the key word. There is no all-encompassing answer.

I can't believe I missed this thread! Great work and I look forward to seeing the future updates!