testing two of KD's new Nichia 219b leds (4500K'92CRI' and 5500K)

Djozz, how well do you feel the emitter maintains its CRI level throughout increasing current?

I have several 119s and 219s and I just somehow feel the higher the current, the less pleasant the tint becomes.

Great info as always. Thank you for the testing djozz.

thanks for the review djozz, that’s a huge help. More output and lower Vf are huge improvements. I wonder how the 92CRI 219B would compare output wise to an XP-G2 R3 3C or 4B? I was thinking about one of those with an XM-L2 T6 3C for a new bike light, but if I can get higher CRI with the same output (throw is not such a big deal) then the 219B looks like a good alternative.

Disappointment!

I put the '92CRI' 219b in a AA-host with a BLF-mini driver (it runs at 1.3A on a Li-ion) to compare it to other lights, a ssUFc3 with a 'old'219Ahigh CRI Nichia also on a BLF-mini driver, a sk68 clone with a Osram Oslon SSL80 4000K 96 CRI led, and my old Xeno03 modded with XP-G2 3C (5000K).

(left to right: Xeno with Xpg2 3C, AA-host with KD's 219B, sk68 with 96 CRI Oslon, UF with old 92CRI Nichia 219A)

I did some thorough comparing by eye, and I am afraid that I am not convinced that this led is 92CRI. It sure is a nice tint, but it does not have the warm yellow and red that the 'old' Nichia 219A 92CRI and the Oslon SSL80 96CRI show. In fact, it is very much like the XP-G2 3C (5000K) that is in my Xeno03 at the moment, a tiny bit less yellow, and a tiny bit more red, so it might be a 80CRI 5000K led.

I tried to capture the comparison in a photo of some colourful objects, but although I could easily see the difference by eye, it does not show on the picture.

I do give you a beamshot comparing KD's 219b on the left, and the old 219A on the right, not because the tints that show are exactly what I see by eye, but because it does show that the tints are quite different.(you see some PWM on the left beamshot because the light was on medium mode)

So what should i say? The tint comparisons I just did are not scientific enough to proof that this led is not 92CRI, although I can not imagine how you can make a 92CRI led with visibly less red, and paler yellow in it than the other highCRI leds I compared it with.

So sorry, all my subjective senses say that this not the 92CRI one

Appreciate all the great info djozz!

How does this 219B render skin color, is it closer to your XPG2 3C or more like the 219A?

Thanks

I was almost ready to pull the trigger on a few of these, thanks for updating and letting us know about the tint Djozz. :wink:

That was a tough question, I just tried that out, those are subtle differences you are talking about! The only reason I can answer this is because the three lights these leds are in can be set to a very similar output and have a very similar beam pattern. And the answer is that it is closer to the XPG2 3C. (When CRI is going down -at least caucasian- skin appears less natural and more towards 'dead body'. These leds still all have nice tints, and do not quite make you look dead, but slightly less natural than the 92CRI one: yes :-)

(off to bed now, sleepy!)

I was also about to jump on these and build up a triple. Looks like we will have to wait for IS to restock them.

The non-high-cri nichia though still seems very promising as it provides about the same/more lumens at a lower Vf than the xp-g2. I guess there would be less throw but it should still throw decent. I don’t know nichias very well but do they have something in the 5A tint region?

Its really though to compare these things.

I have two examples where emitters with good or high CRI were a bit disappointing.

XM-L2 7D3 (90+ CRI), from IS. Just too yellow for me. Subjectively I found the 7A3 (80+ CRI), from Convoy Aliexpress guy. It had way more red and rendered colors better. I just liked the tint better. The balance between yellow and red where better, making it more "white" in a warm sense..

The XM-L2 6A1 (80+ CRI), from IOS. Is the most pink emitter I have ever seen. It lacked to much yellow IMO. and a 75 CRI emitter would visually be better for me.

So I would say that you can get emitters that have good or high CRI, but visually don't render colors like you prefer them do too.

Many of the emitters thats got a bit extra on the red side are great for tint mixing with other emitters though. The reason why I like the tint from MT-G2s and my tint mixed Supfire M6 is because the beams are both quite white looking within their temperature (K) range. Despite both being around 70 CRI.

My point is, if the tint is "right" you can get away with lower CRI and still perceive the beam to be comparable or even better than a light with better CRI in normal use. At least that is how I perceive it.

I thank you for your subjective thoughts djozz. Im not a fan of KD, so im sitting quite nicely up on the fence for some more time.... I like the typical NW Nichia 219A and the cheap WW 119 because of their ability to render red nicely too, the emitters you got does not same to have this "trademark" that I consider typical for the Nichias Im using.. So, like you say, sounds a bit disappointing, in terms of tint..

Apart from tint differences that you can prefer or not, what the 90+ CRI emitters that i have seen sofar all have in common is that they show blue as real blue and not purple-ish, and at the same time show yellow and red as really bright and vivid as well, not pale. Non-90+CRI emitters can be really nice and pleasant, but fail in one or the other. This KD Nichia shows blue as real blue but clearly is not as good as the other two 90+CRI leds in the red/yellow area.

i think that main problem in this situation is the sensor of a digital camera, if you have custom white balance setting on your camera in which you take control shot of white card (or any other object that you know is white) the camera automatically compensates and the two pictures taken with high CRI and regular non high CRI LED will eventually look the same, on the other hand if you use same white balance setting for both LEDs ,again it will not represent the real life experience…i guess the best way is to take picture with custom white balance set on bright sunny daylight and then wait for the night but keep the same settings and take pictures of the same scenery in the night with different LEDs (at least in this way the differences will be shown but again i’m not sure about accuracy with real life experience…i have the cameras but i still haven’t decided which nichia 219 should i get (sportac triple dropin or IS bare LED’s if they are available again or to try some of KD…) EDIT: i will take djozz’s word and pass the KD 219 as it is not the high CRI…

Another victim for the tint+CRI reproduction discussion :evil: . In this thread I tried to tackle some of the problems with all of this, together with RaceR68, with meager results and finally gave up my sky-high ambitions and settled for much less than that.

you think that’s bad…well…i was actually thinking to drive to Bulgaria (Sofia) because i saw this battery shop there that apparently still have sanyo eneloop tropical (colorfull) edition 8 pack that i can not find elsewhere…now i can’t use just anything for control CRI shot…right? J)

Another thing to consider, what your eyes tell you is 'normal' depends on the lighting you spend most time in as well. Nearly all my indoor lighting is cool white stuff around 6000K, so what I expect colors to look like is different than what I'd think was normal/correct color if all my lighting was 3500K.

:D

I showed here, with the first two mouseovers how similar a 3C 75 CRI and a Nichia 219A 92+ CRI can be. There are differences though. Just because white is corrected to look white, does not mean that all colors will look correct. You will see this more easily if you compare light sources with completely different kelvin ranges. But yeah, most of my examples shows that the difference in colors is close to zero when corrected.

Feel free to try and make a 92CRI WW light looks as good as sunlight on a outdoor shot just by correcting the WB. Not going to happen. Sunlight will have the edge even when both have the right WB.

But for everyone who is really into photography, CRI is not crucial. Because once you get the white balance right, most things looks pretty good, and if it doesn't look like you want it to be, colors can always be tweaking independently in post production. If you take a picture that is lit only with artificial lighting, then its not like anyone can see and see if you are using a 70 or 80 CRI light source anyway.

Its actually the people who are not that into photography and have equipment or software or know-how to get the best out of their gear that will benefit from using emitters that work better with their cameras auto whitebalance. The typical Nichia 219A just works very well with most cameras autowb. This is probably the main reason why some say high cri is very important for photography. But for 99% of professional photographers/freelancers, CRI is not something they are even familiar with. Its not a concern.

hmm. I think I drifted a bit off topic there.. :p But its a little bit relevant.. 0:)

they have it here still, so it appears, they only sell what they have in stock so it should be ok:

http://eu.nkon.nl/8aa-sanyo-eneloop-tropical-in-blister.html

If they can't ship, I could sell it for you en send it (I am in the Netherlands, shipping costs for me are are 2.50 euro, to send it to Macedonia would be 12 euro's extra, hmm that is a lot of money already, probably more than they ask.. ).

Ha!, last time i checked nkon.nl they were out of stock…i’m actually using their VAT free russian version…RU nkon… EDIT: thanks! you saved me some 300km driving and about 20 liters of unleaded :smiley:

glad to be of help to you (and to the environment ;-) )

i totally agree…for photo at least…i used to work as member of a team that does wedding photo & video…so i know that video is a little bit different…i noticed that “we photographers” had much less problems with things like white balance than the guys with video cameras and i can tell that “video light department” is much more concern with CRI than photo…one of the reasons for that is difficulty to accurately reproduce “skin tones” in environment that has mixed sources of light and often it is changing (depending on the location )…anyway, now i am off topic…“video light” is very large matter, maybe as large as flashlights…i guess there are forums for that too… :wink:

:party:

:)

:beer:

Thats great because I never mentioned video. I feel we can go back on topic now.. :D

ehm, did anyone else buy any of the Nichias from KD?