Supbeam K50 V2 Mod Thread

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comfychair
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ryansoh3 wrote:
This post is intentionally left blank. (Sorry comfy.)

When the only funny part is where somebody says "that's not funny", it's not a joke, it's trolling.

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comfychair wrote:

ryansoh3 wrote:
This post is intentionally left blank. (Sorry comfy.)

When the only funny part is where somebody says “that’s not funny”, it’s not a joke, it’s trolling.

I was about to update my 1st reply with some measurements but I decided not to because it would bother you. I couldn’t delete the post either because it would mess up the table of contents so I decided to abandon it. No offense intended, I was just playing around.

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comfychair
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So put the updates in the first post, not the first reply, and nothing gets messed up. What's the fascination with putting the updates in the first reply, anyway? How is that any less effective than putting it in the OP? If you want everybody alerted, make a new post at the end of the thread where the new stuff is supposed to go anyway, saying "updated info in OP" or whatever, then a round of notifications go out, people see the new post at the end, and then go back and look at the OP. It works just fine like that on every other forum on the planet.

ImA4Wheelr
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Thanks again ryansoh3.  I guess I have seen images of that side of the driver.  Even in this thread at Post 154.  Just didn't realize it.  Looks exactly the same as far as I can tell.

Look forward to seeing the other side.  Maybe it will help us with this driver.  Thank you again.

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ImA4Wheelr wrote:

Thanks again ryansoh3.  I guess I have seen images of that side of the driver.  Even in this thread at Post 154.  Just didn’t realize it.  Looks exactly the same as far as I can tell.

Look forward to seeing the other side.  Maybe it will help us with this driver.  Thank you again.

Here are some shots of the driver. I couldn’t find my lens extension tube, so the quality isn’t too great. :~
They are very high res, so click on the link for fullscreen+ sizes.


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ImA4Wheelr
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Sweet.  Thank you very much ryansoh3.

So that driver drives 3 emitters in series in the TN30?

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ImA4Wheelr wrote:

Sweet.  Thank you very much ryansoh3.

So that driver drives 3 emitters in series in the TN30?

Yup, 3 XM-L2’s in series for a total Vf of 9-10.5V. Current is 3.0A at level 6 I think.
It’s a very nicely regulated driver that can drive a laser diode at 5.0V @ 2.4A.

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ImA4Wheelr
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Visually, it's strikingly similar to the K50 driver.  The obvious visible difference is the 2 major capacitors are huge and there is that diode on the TN30 driver.  There are a couple extra small caps at 5 o'clock.  Didn't compare resister values.  Here is a mouse over.

Wish I knew enough about electronics to tell if the K50 driver could be easily moded to higher voltages.

comfychair
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Can someone make a single post with the various similar drivers, what their input config is, and what their LED config is? I don't know any of these lights well enough to go back and track down each different version and keep them straight well enough to figure any of it out.

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comfychair wrote:

Can someone make a single post with the various similar drivers, what their input config is, and what their LED config is? I don’t know any of these lights well enough to go back and track down each different version and keep them straight well enough to figure any of it out.

Single Emitter Lights


Light Input Output
K40 3x li-ion 1x XM-L2
TN31 3x li-ion 1x XM-L2
TN32 3x li-ion 1x XM-L2
K50 V2 4x li-ion 1x XM-L2
TN35 3x li-ion 1x MT-G2
K40M 3x li-ion 1x MT-G2

Multi Emitter Lights


Light Input Output
TN30 3x li-ion 3x XM-L2
X40 3x li-ion 3x XM-L2

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comfychair
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Here's a better aligned mouseover:

comfychair
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Are there good pics of all those drivers to help nail down exactly what's different between the ones that will output more than ~4 volts and the ones that won't?

ImA4Wheelr
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Not that I'm aware of, but I have compared some pics of the TN31 and K50 V2 and they appear identical (didn't compare individual component values) except for the mod to the sense resistor bank.

Nice mouse over enhancement CC.  It appears that the traces are the same.

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I’ve sent an email to Bella to forward the driver conundrum to the engineers at Supbeam/Acebeam.

We’ll see what she says.

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Is there a buck controller on the board anywhere? Or is it all done in the PIC? Could it be a firmware thing? TN30 & K50 both use the same 16F616. I can't see the markings on the little 5-leg things well enough to figure out what they are, those are the only other possibility for being a buck controller I can see on either side.

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Thanks ryansoh3. 

In you table above.  Is the TN32 an xml2 light?

EDIT:  It is.  It's the TN35 that is MT-G2.

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comfychair wrote:

Is there a buck controller on the board anywhere? Or is it all done in the PIC? Could it be a firmware thing? TN30 & K50 both use the same 16F616. I can’t see the markings on the little 5-leg things well enough to figure out what they are, those are the only other possibility for being a buck controller I can see on either side.

It reads C2KV on my TN30 driver, but my Google-fu isn’t strong with this one.

What’s the package format of the 5-pin component?

ImA4Wheelr wrote:

Thanks ryansoh3. 

In you table above.  Is the TN32 an xml2 light?

Yup, XM-L2.
I forgot to add the TN35, which has a MT-G2 emitter.

Single Emitter Lights


Light Input Output
K40 3x li-ion 1x XM-L2
TN31 3x li-ion 1x XM-L2
TN32 3x li-ion 1x XM-L2
K50 V2 4x li-ion 1x XM-L2
TN35 3x li-ion 1x MT-G2
K40M 3x li-ion 1x MT-G2

Multi Emitter Lights


Light Input Output
TN30 3x li-ion 3x XM-L2
X40 3x li-ion 3x XM-L2

I’ve grouped the drivers that I think are identical except for current sense resistors (0.5-1.0A difference):
XM-L2 low current K40/TN31
XM-L2 high current TN32/K50 V2
TM-G2 TN35/K40M
The TN30 and X40 are identical except the fact that the X40 is infinitely variable.

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comfychair
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These two:

http://75.65.123.78/p2-sm.jpg

One at the left clearly goes to the FET gate, so that's most likely (though not necessarily) a gate driver; the other one is the main suspect, I think.

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Package size... SOT-23-5? They're basically same size as the mag sensor chips and the tiny little FETs right? So smaller than a 7135 (SOT-89).

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Whoops, I was looking at the wrong side.

My TN30 reads 8NDE on the left and SB6Y on the right.

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Thanks Ryan.  I Goggled and edit cross posted with you. 

I did some Goggling, but I can't find any good images of the TN35 and K40M drivers.

EDIT: Thankfully, it appears that the answers may be in the images that Ryan provided.  Well, that combined with people smarter than me.

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RaceR86 wrote:
Here are emitter amps from lowest to highest mode according to my cheap DMM.

Moon 0,00237 ( second time I measured 0,00245)

0,058

0,53

1,43

2,69

High starts at 5,03 and sinks to about 4,9A in a minute.

I love the efficiencies gained by these large properly designed reflectors. Here’s another fine example of efficiency versus what pleases the human eyes. While the differences are shown to be significant with a lux meter while moving from level 5 to level 6 (max), the eyes perceive it only as a slight increase. 2.7A versus +5A is rather sobering for a comparatively small perceived increase in apparent brightness. I went through a set of cells while hiking through the hills last night switching between L5 & 6 to confirm (mostly max range spotting). IMO, (and not surprising to most of us) it does nearly as well at 2.7A as at 5A.

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but does anyone know if the mcpcb is a direct thermal design? If not, could I dismount the emitter and expose the copper for the center pad and reflow?

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I think it’s been confirmed as a copper MCPCB, but I don’t think anyone has actually removed the emitter and tested the thermal pad with an ohmmeter, to confirm whether or not there is a dielectric layer.

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Yup, I just confirmed that the center pad is electrically conductive to/with? the copper base.

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Thanks.

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FlashPilot wrote:
RaceR86 wrote:
Here are emitter amps from lowest to highest mode according to my cheap DMM.

 

Moon 0,00237 ( second time I measured 0,00245)

0,058

0,53

1,43

2,69

High starts at 5,03 and sinks to about 4,9A in a minute.

I love the efficiencies gained by these large properly designed reflectors. Here's another fine example of efficiency versus what pleases the human eyes. While the differences are shown to be significant with a lux meter while moving from level 5 to level 6 (max), the eyes perceive it only as a slight increase. 2.7A versus +5A is rather sobering for a comparatively small perceived increase in apparent brightness. I went through a set of cells while hiking through the hills last night switching between L5 & 6 to confirm (mostly max range spotting). IMO, (and not surprising to most of us) it does nearly as well at 2.7A as at 5A. Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but does anyone know if the mcpcb is a direct thermal design? If not, could I dismount the emitter and expose the copper for the center pad and reflow?

 

Yupp. This shows how little point it is to push it further from a real life point of view. Still fun trying. Due to the battery carrier issues im planning on going back to stock.

I verifed direct thermal path in post 158. It was a long post, dont blame you for not not noticing. Maybe I should have said K50, but the mcpcb said K40 as seen in pictures.

"Also reflowed a junk XM-L2 on to the stock mcpcb for testing. Verified that the stock K40 mcpcb does have direct thermal path."



Ryan, your measurements match mine nicely (Ive never trusted the super low amp numbers on my DMM though) Did you measure what the actual current is on high after power deacrease? I forgot that bit and did not see you mention it either.


Since many seems to be into the photos. Here larger versions of the K50 driver images I have shared.

Top side photo

Spring side photo

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Thanks for the reply’s. Yes, its always fun pushing anything performance related to find a bit more, and I always enjoy reading about all the grand efforts to crank it up. Its nice to know that I dont have to go gouging a trough in the mcpcb for direct thermal. With the stock light, I wonder how much total resistance might be accumulated with all those springs and if they begin to heat up and waste energy (sustained high mode use). Thoughts on that and would it really warrant a wire mod?

During my walk into high terrain (no ambient light), I would focus on a steep grassy hill on high setting and walk the beam up the hill until it was barley perceptible. Then I would lower to the second highest mode and walk the beam back down the hill until the beam was again barley perceptible. Id guess the difference was around 110 feet of range. It just makes me smile… again: 2.7A vs 5A, a lot less heat and better run time. The more I use this light, the more I like it.

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A (hopefully) far less complex issue compared to yall’s driver problems… if yours happens to have a slightly off center emitter is it an easy fix in a k50v2?

I haven’t broken mine down so this is the best shot I could grab of the misalignment.

As it is, it loads up one side of the corona heavily, and presumably decreases kcd by about ~25% (based on Dale’s numbers compared to mine).

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FlashPilot wrote:
With the stock light, I wonder how much total resistance might be accumulated with all those springs and if they begin to heat up and waste energy (sustained high mode use). Thoughts on that and would it really warrant a wire mod?

The springs are probably just seeing around 1,5A and uptowards of 2A when stock.

In mode 5 its considerably less than 1amp through each spring.. On max output, the power decease also lowers the already fairly low amps. Many (premium lights) push twice the amount of amps through fairly similar springs. I would not worry about it. I would recommend to stick with protected cells in this light though.

 

unknown00101 wrote:
A (hopefully) far less complex issue compared to yall's driver problems... if yours happens to have a slightly off center emitter is it an easy fix in a k50v2? I haven't broken mine down so this is the best shot I could grab of the misalignment. !http://i.imgur.com/0pb88iF.jpg! As it is, it loads up one side of the corona heavily, and presumably decreases kcd by about ~25% (based on Dale's numbers compared to mine).

Unscrew the bezel take out the reflector and see what you can do. You can see pictures of how I and Tom E did it earlier in this thread.

I would not compare kcd with others and draw conclusions out of it unless you are sure how your numbers compares. Dales numbers can be more than 30% higher than a low reading meter. 

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Then it’s 30% lower.

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