This looks great but do we really need all the blinky modes? I understand they’re hidden but it’s still too much.
I would be happy with just these modes in hidden:
1. LowLow
9. Turbo that stays on (no timer)
2. Disorienting strobe (randomly alternating 13-19.5Hz 60-40% duty cycle)
4. Beacon with background (1Hz - 50ms Turbo / 950ms Med mode)
8. SOS
My thinking is that extra hidden modes do not bother, as you never have to cycle them through. The firmware is using "short cycle memory" for hidden modes: Route from Strobe to another strobe is: Strobe -> L -> M -> T -> L -> M -> T -> LL -> Strobe -> Strobe2
They just need to be in a correct order, most often used ones first.
[quote=CRX]
I would be happy with just these modes in hidden:
1. LowLow
9. Turbo that stays on (no timer)
2. Disorienting strobe (randomly alternating 13-19.5Hz 60-40% duty cycle)
4. Beacon with background (1Hz - 50ms Turbo / 950ms Med mode)
8. SOS
[/quote]
Turbo that stays on is the last hidden mode on purpose. It's potentially dangerous, so it must be the hardest one to get activated.
I see what you mean. I’d definitely be in for a few of these anyway.
I haven’t read up on the custom firmwares/ drivers yet and that OSH Park thread is getting more daunting everyday 
Sounds complicated. 
@18sixfifty, while the has stepped in with his own firmware offering and personal presumptions without considering the needs of the group, most of us have already chimed in loud and clear for several years about how useless and annoying ANY blinky modes are (including the hidden ones). Why would anyone want to bring them back when we all hate them so much? Nothing is more irritating than an inadvertent cycle into a hidden blinky mode. Can you please offer this in the standard 4 mode firmware that we have all grown to love and appreciate? (candle, low, med, high) Add a 5th mode for more even mode spacing if you really must. Its far more intuitive but certainly unnecessary. You’re only adding .5A to the base driver. Also, a timer on turbo is really pretty lame, especially at only 3.5A. If someone cant feel that the light is burning their hand, they probably have much greater physical or mental issues to deal with. Many of us have several hosts that can withstand +5A continuous for 10 minutes or more without overheating, so this would be just another huge annoyance (whether hidden of not).
Just say no to the silly blinky modes and the useless hidden foo-foo. 
If you must, please offer the driver in 2 firmware versions so the buyer can chose which one they want. I have a feeling you will sell far more of the standard version.
Also, my customers have spoken. No one buys my custom lights with blinky modes or hidden mode groups when I offer them without that nonsense. They dont like it, they dont want it and they wont buy it…. so I cant support it either.
Thank you.
@FP: I hear you. But just to make facts straight:
1. Rest assured that TheStar firmware is not based on my personal presumptions. It was designed to support as many needs (in a GB light) as possible, and has been "beta tested" by many people.
2. We are not adding 0.5A, but raising the current 50%: 2.8A -> 4.2A.
If most of the people here happen to hate TheStar, we have still couple of options:
1. Select another FW and get permission to use it in mass production
2. Further develop TheStar to suit your needs
3. Mark this thread as SPAM (and forget it)
Actually after THE mentioned his firmware I PM’d him and we discussed this. I asked him if I could use his firmware. I really can’t see any problem with having hidden blinkies (some people do like them, I get asked to keep blinkies in a few of my builds).
I have a feeling this isn’t going anywhere anyway. Like usual there are simply too many people wanting different things. Also there just are not that many people interested. Lot’s of people viewing but not that many people showing interest.
I’ll keep it open for a while longer but I’m pretty sure they won’t go for less than 500 drivers and it doesn’t look like we will hit that. Too bad because I thought it was a pretty good idea.
Point taken and thank you for your thoughts and corrections. Ive probably sold around 500 C8 lights. Ever since offering them with Moonlight - 2% - 50% - 100%, I havent sold a single C8 with blinkys of any sort… none, even when dropping the floor on the price. People are put off by them from the get-go and any further explanation only annoys them. Why? Because blinky modes annoy most people. Thats also what you, I and everyone else has read for years.
Im sure you’ve put a lot of effort into making the ultimate blinky/do-all FW. Im glad there are those that will appreciate the added modes and the gadgetry that comes with it. But the masses have long ago already decided what they like and dont like, and that still hasnt changed.
So why not offer it in 2 versions? For my initial order, Im in for 1 x with you blinkys to check out your gadgetry and mess with people during Halloween and 20 of the std star UI. Can this be provided?
Its a great idea with a great price! Can you ask them if they could flash 2 different FW versions to please a larger group of people? I think just 2 FW versions would allow more people to chose what they want and can use (stimulate sales). Once sales begin and people begin to post their mod results, Id think sales would really pick-up. It really is an incredible price that deserves more attention.
Thoughts?
I think TheStars is pretty weird. I think I get some of the logic behind it, but it’s still pretty weird. Besides the weirdness, there seems to be one obvious oversight. I’m pretty confident that those who want moonlight don’t want to do two full cycles to get there. Instead of the gap-filler tacticool mode , it seems that having star2 control whether moonlight/LL is included in the normal mode group would make a larger group of people happy. I understand the logic between having 6 blinky modes I think: If you hide one, why not hide 6?
I’m still only so sure the supplier can actually do what they claim. Stacking isn’t normally done on any manufacturing lines. (thus why both Mattaus and I both assumed that you meant a PCB which could fit 12.) I think it’s fair to say that stacking is hard (difficult). It would definitely be interesting to get them to do samples for you.
Maybe RMM would be interested in taking over the GB. I suppose he’d need to make a profit, but at the same time it could end up being of nearly as much benefit to everyone as 18sixfifty’s original proposition. I’m not sure how many +4’s RMM builds, but if it’s a lot and you can still fit the SOIC clip onto the ATtiny after the stacking that supplier does then it seems like something he’d be interested in.
I’ll have some answers Monday night/ Tuesday morning.
I’ll also ask them if we can pick more than one mode selection. I kind of doubt it because we are not even close to having the people to pull of the 1,000 they asked for. I think if we could hit 500 of one driver they would probably go for it.
Well we will see.
Right. That's what I have been writing in my reviews. I used to hate blinky modes - but learned that I hate them only when they are in normal mode cycle. They are fun or useful in some cases, but the fact that I need to step through them every time I want to go from High to Low is so annoying that the negative things easily outweighs the positives => getting rid of the blinky modes was the answer. Qlite in 4-mode config was "near perfect" for me.
The whole point of TheStar is that it feels like a standard 3-mode UI. How many users will loop through all the modes twice without having even one one second break? The limit could be three rounds, but based on the feedback from testers, two rounds was chosen to be good compromise between good usability in normal cases and the accessibility of the hidden modes when needed.
Can you flash your own FW? I can send it to you by email to be tested. Or maybe some member near you could flash you one?
I guess that flashing the FW is way easier than stacking the 7135s => Maybe they can agree to 2x500pc batches.
Anyone consider a daughter card solution for maximizing 7135’s on one side of the driver?
I suspect this would make it much easier to manufacture.
Maybe it sounds more complicated than it really is. Or maybe there's just a language barrier and I can't explain it well..
I fully understand your concern. I used to think it's better to have the LowLow in the main mode cycle. But after using both 3- and 4-mode variants of TheStar for couple of weeks, I like the 3-mode (with hidden LowLow) much more - to my great surprise I like it more also in my in-house EDC-type lights like S2+.
Exactly. My original idea was to add only a strobe, but why not add more as they won't affect the usage at all (but still are there if you need them).
I don’t think it’s a language barrier issue. You’ve explained everything pretty well I think. I mean weird as in strange. EDIT: and I am not saying “bad”.
I don’t really use LL, so it’s hard for me to say. I thought we had a fair number of users who use LL as the primary mode on some lights.
Since this is an ontime firmware right now it’s not even on my radar ;-).
@The - I dont have a clip but thanks for you generous offer. Your test group and GB light participants are advanced enthusiasts so I dont think they accurately reflect the bulk of the potential buying market needed to make the sales numbers needed for this GB. While I can appreciate your UI and explanations, it will confuse the first or second time buyer/modder or casual buyer. I would have no problem buying a clip and following one of the many great “how to” posts on this forum and flashing my own. But that isnt going to help us gather the numbers we need to make this sale come to fruition. Thats why I strongly think we would have a far better chance offering two UI’s. The goal should be how to configure the driver to appeal to the largest group possible while maintaining the target price. Wouldnt you agree? If not, the GB will die.
I think the average person will view the benefits and impetus for this GB as:
3) simplicity (with the option for complexity if it can be offered in 2 UI versions) This might increase sales because people would think about buying one of each to compare. Even I will buy one with the blinkies! 
:bigsmile:
4) ease of installation if they can solder or give it a try
5) 17mm
6) many custom UI choices with a clip
In the end, whatever it takes to meet the sales goal is the best decision and I’ll support whatever it takes to help push this through.
As _the_ has explained, the TheStar should be simple to operate. Based on my understanding of the operation, if you don't mention the hidden modes to your users they likely will not find them. You could print out a little card to go with the light if you felt compelled - put the technical specs and the advanced driver operation instructions on it.
_the_ can correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no "flashy mode group" to get stuck in. Turning the light off and back on from any flashy mode should put them back into the regular modes. The worst thing that could happen to an end user is that they might one day play with the light until they see a flashy mode - and not be sure how to get back to that mode in the future.
I'm warming up to the concept at least a little.
I don't think two firmwares is a good idea. As you and I have both stated, anyone who's purchasing drivers by the tens or twenties is obviously purchasing them to build and distribute lights with (resale, gifting, whatever). Whatever we decide is "simple" enough for that should be on all the drivers from this GB whether it's TheStar or something else. We've got a lot going on here (stacking, replacing some default Nanjg-clone firmware), no need to add more avenues for error to that. Anyone who wants a different firmware has plenty of options to get it done!
Well.. Yes, and no. :)
There is no "flashy mode group", but the current flashy mode is remembered like any other mode => From strobe, turning the light off and on again will turn it on on the strobe mode. First mode change (= two clicks) will return to first standard mode.
K.I.S.S. for “stock”
3-4 modes w/ hidden blinky