17mm & 20/26/27mm single-sided DD/FET driver release: A17DD-SO8 / A20DD-SO8 / etc

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wight
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johnvilla136 wrote:
Is these a good FET for this driver http://www.ebay.com/itm/PSMN1R2-25YL-NXP-MOSFET-N-CH-25V-100A-LFPAK-QTY-5PCS-/271721280721?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f43d9b4d1
and
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PH4030AL-NXP-Trans-MOSFET-N-CH-30V-100A-5-Pin-4-Tab-LFPAK-10PCS-LOT-/281542597064?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item418d3f19c8
Also can i use y5v capacitor instead of x5r?
Do not use Y5V instead of X5R. You may use X7R. Which capacitor are you having trouble finding? You should have no trouble with that.

At a glance, either FET looks acceptable to me. On the first page of this thread we talked a little about both FETs you linked to. (At the time I mentioned that PSMN1R2-25YL might not work well with Zener mods, but I don’t remember why. Maybe I was concerned about Qg. Anyway it’s probably fine, I wouldn’t worry about that.)

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

johnvilla136
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Yeah i’m not having trouble finding the capacitors, i just want to buy the parts from one seller. the capacitors and FET from the same ebay seller. He has the x5r but it’s 0603 http://www.ebay.com/itm/0603-SMD-Ceramic-capacitor-MLCC-CL10A475KQ8NNNC-4-7uF-6-3V-10-X5R-0603-100PCS-/281542593537?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item418d3f0c01
He doesn’t have the 1uf so i’ll have to find it from other ebay seller.
What is the reason not to use Y5V?

How about this FETs
PSMN1R5-25YL

SIR850DP-T1-GE3

That’s the only FET i find at our local electronics store.

cajampa
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Thanks djozz for the build writeup,
The threshold to really know all the ins and out to know everything needed is very high, i am trying to assemble all the knowledge the last couple of months to get started with this driver building also, the problem is i have to learn about everything else needed about flashlights at the same time Smile Tired

Now i am probably making this more complicated than i really have to :-), but i started from 0 flashlights before October last year so this whole hobby is a lot to learn and comprehend to do all the fun mods you guys are doing.

wight
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Y5V sucks. IIRC it’s not temp stable, tolerances are wide, turns terrible over time, etc.

I looked at PSMN1R5-25YL very briefly just now. It looks like it might be a great choice, but I did not look closely. I did not look at the other FET.

EDIT: If you can deal with 0603 size then just buy those, they should fit OK on the 0805 pads…

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

johnvilla136
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What do you think of the PSMN1R5-25YL and SIR850DP-T1-GE3. Here i make a quick comparison, i included the PSMN3R0 / PSMN6R0 from previous page to compare it.

PSMN3R0 / PSMN6R0 / PSMN1R5-25YL / SIR850DP-T1-GE3

Drain to Source Voltage (Vdss) ———————- 30V / 30V /25v / 25v
Current – Continuous Drain (Id) @ 25°C ——— 100A (Tc) / 71A (Tc) / 100A / 30A

Rds On (Max) Id, Vgs ---------------------- 3.1 mOhm 25A / 6.5 mOhm 20A / 1.5 mOhm 15A / 7 mOhm @ 20A

Vgs(th) (Max) Id ----------------------------2.2V 1mA / 1.95V 1mA / 2.15V 1mA / 3V @ 250µA

Gate Charge (Qg) Vgs ----------------------46.4nC 10V / 19nC 10V / 76nc 10v / 30nC @ 10V

Input Capacitance (Ciss) Vds--------------- 2939pF 15V / 1088pF 15V / 4830pf 12v / 1120pF @ 15V
Power – Max —————————————————-91W / 58W / 109W / 41.7W

I can see that the PSMN1R5-25YL has a higher Gate Charge and Input Capacitance, is that bad? The SIR850DP-T1-GE3 has lower Gate Charge and Input Capacitance but higher Rds On (Max) Id and Vgs(th) (Max) Id.

wight
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I suspect that SiR850DP will not give the best performance for single-cell applications.

I’ve looked again at PSMN1R5-25YL. It still looks strong. The turn-on/off/etc delay is high, much higher than PSMN3R0-30YLD. This will probably affect the structure of your modes (I think that they may compress upwards? PWM frequency may need to be turned down? I dunno.)

I see no show-stoppers, I’d go with PSMN1R5-25YL if those were my choices.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

wight
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johnvilla136 wrote:
[snip] I can see that the PSMN1R5-25YL has a higher Gate Charge and Input Capacitance, is that bad? The SIR850DP-T1-GE3 has lower Gate Charge and Input Capacitance but higher Rds On (Max) Id and Vgs(th) (Max) Id.
Hmm, I did not notice the higher input capacitance. That’s probably related to the slow turn-on time. That could be a problem, but I don’t know. It might be OK.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

johnvilla136
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Will this diode sod-323 work? http://www.ebay.com/itm/20PCS-RoHm-0-5A-20V-Schottky-SOD-323-RB551V-30-/251462325574?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a8c529546

wight
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johnvilla136 wrote:
Will this diode sod-323 work? http://www.ebay.com/itm/20PCS-RoHm-0-5A-20V-Schottky-SOD-323-RB551V-30-/251462325574?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a8c529546
At a glance it looks OK to me for 1s to 4s applications. (Only where the voltage divider bypasses the diode, otherwise you’ll have to tune your LVP settings extra. Most of my drivers are that way now, including this one.)

The price looks very good, less than half of what we are paying for ZLLS410.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

nitro
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wight
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Good catch nitro.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

johnvilla136
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nitro wrote:

50pcs not a bad deal might have to pick some up

http://www.ebay.com/itm/50pcs-RoHm-0-5A-20V-Schottky-SOD-323-RB551V-30-/171253520852?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27df8159d4

It’s cheaper here http://www.ebay.com/itm/RoHm-0-5A-20V-Schottky-SOD-323-RB551V-30-TE17-50pcs-/200990156954?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ecbf2689a

cajampa
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This kind of information is great, where can we find all the components for the lowest free shipping price.

I hadn’t even searched ebay for this stuff before djozz build write up and he mentioned it, i just had assumed wrongly that it is mouser/digi-key/farnell and the likes that you find such specific parts.

kyfishguy
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I built one of these drivers using the original PCB and the parts list below and put it into a triple nichia 219 micro mag.  I'm getting 4.7 amps at the tail with an Efest IMR 14500.  The light maintains high mode for 5-20 seconds on a freshly charged cell then blinks three times and goes to a light level somewhere between medium and high.  Anybody got an idea what's going on and how to fix it? 

R1 = 22k

R2 = 4.7k

C1 = 10 uF cap

D1 = SOD323 schottky diode

MCU = ATTINY13A flashed with n-lite by RMM off a QLITE, moon activated

FET = PSMN3R0-30YLDX

Zener and OTC are unpopulated.

 

Brian

 

wight
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kyfishguy wrote:

I built one of these drivers using the original PCB and the parts list below and put it into a triple nichia 219 micro mag.  I’m getting 4.7 amps at the tail with an Efest IMR 14500.  The light maintains high mode for 5-20 seconds on a freshly charged cell then blinks three times and goes to a light level somewhere between medium and high.  Anybody got an idea what’s going on and how to fix it? 

R1 = 22k

R2 = 4.7k

C1 = 10 uF cap

D1 = SOD323 schottky diode

MCU = ATTINY13A flashed with n-lite by RMM, moon activated

FET = PSMN3R0-30YLDX

Zener and OTC are unpopulated.

 

Brian

 

That’s your low voltage stepdown of course.

HKJ – Efest IMR14500 V2 700mAh (Red)

If after monitoring your voltage during the process you find that stepdown is happening at too high a voltage you may increase decrease the resistance of R1.

EDIT: oops, corrected w/ strikethrough text.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
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kyfishguy
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What do you suggest I change R1 to, a starting range would help.

  Thanks,

B

wight
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kyfishguy wrote:

What do you suggest I change R1 to, a starting range would help.

  Thanks,

B

I suggest you measure what voltage your driver is stepping down at.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
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ToyKeeper
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You could also switch to a firmware you can modify, so you can set the voltage thresholds yourself.

In case it helps, I have a firmware which will blink out the raw ADC value for voltage. It doesn’t currently do this under load, but that would be easy to change. The point is, you just have to turn the light on, measure the cell voltage with a DMM, write down the value it blinks out, and you’ll have the exact value you need to transplant into STAR or some other firmware. (or at least a few values along a curve, from which you can estimate the actual values needed)

http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~toykeeper/flashlight-firmware/trunk/files/h...

kyfishguy
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wight wrote:
kyfishguy wrote:

What do you suggest I change R1 to, a starting range would help.

  Thanks,

B

I suggest you measure what voltage your driver is stepping down at.

3.47v

DB Custom
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Is your firmware set up for that 223 at R1 or is it still thinking there’s a 1912 there? That might well be why.

wight
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DBCstm wrote:
Is your firmware set up for that 223 at R1 or is it still thinking there’s a 1912 there? That might well be why.
That’s not why. In that case the stepdown would happen at too low a voltage, not too high. EDIT: I was wrong about that. Sorry DBCstm! Sad

That said, nlite is a hex from DrJones. It’s precompiled for the reverse polarity protection diode to be in series with the 19.1k/4.7k divider. The 22k/4.7k combo is specifically intended to mitigate the effect of removing the diode from in front of the voltage divider. That’s what this driver does.

Reducing the value of R1 is still the way to go, but if kyfishguy’s numbers are accurate it appears that DrJones setup the stepdown to happen at a much higher voltage than STAR for example.

kyfishguy wrote:

wight wrote:
I suggest you measure what voltage your driver is stepping down at.

3.47v

That is the voltage under load?

(Because if so, this really doesn’t add up to me. DrJones’s standard nlite firmware should be looking for something like approximately 0.55v to start stepping down. The 22k / 4.7k combo should not give such a low voltage until around 3.1v at the battery.)

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
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kyfishguy
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Yes,

That is the voltage at the battery under load.  I'm thinking I'll just start over with new components and a different MCU and see what happens.

wight
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kyfishguy wrote:

Yes,

That is the voltage at the battery under load.  I’m thinking I’ll just start over with new components and a different MCU and see what happens.

I made a mistake in my post above. Now edited w/ strike through and some follow up text.

If you are unable to flash the MCU you should just drop R1 until you get the cutoff you want. I’d try 19.1k based on your measurements so far. If your measurements are not accurate then my suggestion will also not be accurate.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
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As these guys have noted, you have another problem if you have the R1: 22K and R2: 4.7K resistors in there and it is stepping down at only 3.47v.  For a sanity check, it is good to measure what the MCU pin is seeing, as that will rule out all variables except for the MCU itself.  As wight noted, it shouldn't start stepping down until around 0.55v on pin 7.  

The 22K R1 instead of the 19.1K was to compensate for the different driver layout so that the standard firmware ADC values could still be used. 

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

kyfishguy
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Ok, I tried the 19.1k resistor and it runs fine.  I ran the voltage down to 3.28 which amounted to a couple minutes run time.  I had to stop there because the pill was outside of the host and getting very hot.  I'll do some further testing tomorrow to see how low the voltage will go before stepdown.  It has become a certainty that I've got to gear up to flash firmware if I'm going to continue playing with this stuff.

  Thanks guys,

Brian

wight
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kyfishguy wrote:

Ok, I tried the 19.1k resistor and it runs fine.  I ran the voltage down to 3.28 which amounted to a couple minutes run time.  I had to stop there because the pill was outside of the host and getting very hot.  *I’ll do some further testing tomorrow to see how low the voltage will go before stepdown. *   It has become a certainty that I’ve got to gear up to flash firmware if I’m going to continue playing with this stuff.

  Thanks guys,

Brian

Definitely do your follow-up testing please, that resistor should make cutoff voltage way too low.

… is it possible that you don’t actually have nlite on that MCU?

I’m sure you’ll be much happier with the ability to flash.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

kyfishguy
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I don't know it's n lite but it is a 3 mode, no disco with solder selectable moon mode, memory, and mode order.  I'll update with test results.

kyfishguy
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Wight,

I tested low voltage stepdown with the 19.1k resistor installed.  Stepdown occurred reliably at 2.8 volts.

Brian

wight
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kyfishguy wrote:

Wight, I tested low voltage stepdown with the 19.1k resistor installed. Stepdown occurred reliably at 2.8 volts.

Brian

My opinion is that as long as you discontinue use as soon as stepdown starts you’ll have no issues. Looking back at the NLITE section on DrJones’ site it appears that there is no low voltage cut-off, only a single stepdown. (Whereas STAR repeatedly steps down in an effort to do a ‘battery stretch’.) Understand that your battery has exceptionally little capacity left at 2.8v, so you will have no significant early warning.

So after acknowledging these important limitations, this sounds fine within the scope of what you can currently do for yourself. Clearly my recommendation would be different if you could flash.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
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kyfishguy
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Further thought leads me to believe I got the MCU discussed above off a q-lite from IOS.  Actual investigation confirms the presence of solder select disco modes.  My bad.   

To actually test NLITE on this driver I built a second driver with a different MCU.  This one came from RMM about a month ago on a 4x 7135 driver and I had him flash nlite onto it.  I built the driver with 22k resistor first and got the first stepdown at 3.21 volts.  There were several steps noted to progressively lower light levels but there was no associated flashing.  I substituted a 19.1k resistor and didn't get a stepdown until 2.7 volts.  That's a long way of saying NLITE works fine.  

 

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