I've been a flashaholic for years and I still don't get the obsession with ultra low modes.

LED Flashlights – General Info
116

That’s fine, derail away! Yeah I don’t like drama either, I was attempting to explain one “side” to another in hopes they would understand each other better, but non-extreme views attempting understanding are very ignore-able anymore these days :stuck_out_tongue:

That opinion poll for conversation and understanding and how they are mis-interpreted is pretty important, though not for what I think you are thinking here. The poster of that poll you are talking about already mis-interprets it as “This means that less than 1 person in 20 dislikes it”. When if you read the poll, the most logical conclusion is about 20% of polled have stated mild to strong preference against, and 7% admit to not really trying it out yet. And I, a “vocal anti-moonlight poster” am actually counted as “pro moonlight” in that poll. About 73% appear to be “for” it, I’m in this group, but have spoken out against including it at times, hmm, interesting, maybe the design of this poll is questionable, or its not very suited for the purpose its being used for…

Also remember these opinion polls are also an unofficial sub group of: 1) us nutballs who like LED lights enough to participate in forums on them 2) Smaller sub group of those who have actually tried moonlight, 3) Even tinier selected sub-group of those nutballs who have strong opinions on the topic. And, as an aforementioned LED nutball who has tried moonlight and has a strong enough opinion to comment, I would have voted no to moonlight on a light before, yet I am in the second strongest pro-moonlight category…kinda badly done poll to get this kind of meaning out of it. I find a badly done poll on opinionated nutballs not too reflective of even general forum light users, let alone all users, and pretty illustrative of how polls and studies are generally mis-used.

Yup I like it a lot when I want it, heck include two hidden moonlight modes of different levels and thats awesome! Just don’t dim my brightest mode, leave me with no low mode, or force me to start in it always, then the answer is no way, don’t even put it in! :wink: Of course now we even have a few people who are now saying only 3-4 modes only on a light or they wont buy it…you never can please everyone, there is always a sub group with extreme wants.

The important thing is to be able to be reflective of the general population of users when looking at “features” and weighing importance of them. Highest high mode is going to be way near the top of all features (in most lights), moonlight is going to be a mid importance level due to many BLFers liking it, and “just 3 modes” is going to be a bit above “must have strobe”, which appears above “must have SOS”. Just look at the D80 or the Eagle Eye promising 1500 lumens for illustration vs the newly released D80 with lower moonlight. How many have gone and purchased it instead of the D80 “in production” with the higher high or foregone the group buy to go buy D80 moon instead of the Eagle Eye? All have moon mode. Highest high is the main defining factor getting us to wait for the purchase, not moon.

I’d also like to say I really appreciate you for working on keeping moon modes and high high and other modes in that EE group buy though so we don’t actually have to choose anymore Toykeeper! :slight_smile:

117

Yeah, saying the other side is just stupid never helps.

118

Moonlight mode or no moonlight mode. Why is that even a question?

Looks to me like simply personal preference. If someone wants 3000 lumens I certainly won’t be telling them that it is foolish or unnecessary, even though I might have no use for it.

These aren’t the moonlight modes you’re looking for.
You can go now.
Move along, move along.

119

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

But that is old fashioned now. Todays Philosophy can be summed up by

"If You don't agree with me, You should be forced to!"

Where did all this Arrogance come from?

120

The moonlight mode is useful when you have to get up to teh bedroom without disturbing your roommates or hurting your eyes. I used to have a keychain with warm and tender light, but it does’t work any more. And I’m looking for one now.

121

I’ve heard good things about the Preon P0, which has a 0.25 lumen mode, but I haven’t tried it myself. I think it’s probably the smallest 1xAAA light available, though the DQG Tiny is very close.

122

One thing I want to clarify is what I mean by moonlight mode. I mean less than one lumen. A low mode of 3-10 lumens is very useful and I will never argue otherwise. I’m talking about that ultra low mode that you have to look at the emitter to see if it actually on.

I’ve had lights with moonlight mode and attempted to use that mode for things that I thought were reasonable. For example, I had to use my keys to open my front door once (normally open garage door from car) and I tried moonlight to see the lock and my keys. My neighborhood is really dark but it isn’t pitch dark. The moonlight mode was simply not bright enough to be useful.

I guess my point is, I don’t think there have ever really been any situations where I wanted less light than say 3 lumens. It just seems like such a specialized mode that I’m surprised how common it is considering I don’t have a use for it or know anyone who would ever use it. I think it’s a flashaholic kind of thing that has found its way into production.

123

You get out of your car and try to unlock your house using “moon mode” and complain?

You’ve been using it wrong.

Look, no offense meant, but you either can’t use it, or you don’t know when to use it.

Moon mode — for dark-adapted eyes — is useless half an hour before your eyes get dark-adapted.

And it’s useless if you’re well into your late 60s or 70s, on average, because your eyes no longer work with so little light.

Have you spent half an hour in complete darkness so you have some idea what your night vision can do for you?

Good. Now, spend two hours in a dark sky site so your night vision has fully adapted and you’re getting the maximum night vision you’re capable of.

How’s that work for you?

Seriously, sincerely, no offense meant here — but you have to know how the tool works for you, to be able to use it, if you can.

Think of it like using earphones to listen to music.
The older you get, the louder you have to set the volume knob.
The louder the surroundings, the higher you have to set the volume knob.
If you’re an old guy, you never hear silence — you always hear the noise in your ears, some whistling or clicking — tinnitus. Increases with age.

Same sort of thing happens with vision, and our other senses.

124

Think of it as a whisper of light when you don’t want to shout.

125

“Think of it as a whisper of light when you do need to shite”

(Urban Dictionary: Shite - a very british and therefore great way of saying shit. shite sounds much more effective than shit)

126

effective? You need a laxative? :Sp

127

That was a quote from Urban Dictionary website :slight_smile:

128

i resemble this remark, being 67, and moonlight is my favourite and most used mode!

129

I find myself using moon modes all the time.

I have another hobby: repairing small engines. I find myself using them to look down tiny holes in shiny aluminum chainsaw carburetors. Even 5 lumens reflects enough to shadow the bottom of the hole.

130

Surprisingly, since I got into this hobby wanting only the brightest all the time, I would like to try out a light with a true moon mode. I like the low on the BLF SE X6, but it is definitely not moon.

131

Personally, I find the 0.1 lumen moon mode on a ZL SC52 (spec’d at 0.34 lm, but actually just 0.1), ceiling-bounced, is plenty of light for the entire bedroom at night. A tenth of a lumen spread around an entire room is quite a bit dimmer than actual moonlight, but it’s just about right for my purposes.

On the other hand, I’m blind outside in direct sunlight unless I wear very dark glasses, and even then it’s still uncomfortable.

Different people have dramatically different levels of light sensitivity. More generally, different people are different. Recognize it, respect it, move on.

132

While I like it, if I had a choice I would select about 3 lmn instead of the less than 1.
Jerry

133

Well. My favourite circuit is a dr Jones lucidrv /ft so I can use short cycle memory and get my Moon mode. I use moon every night. Love it.

134

Every Mfg. is not going to build a ML mode into their lights, some will have it and some won’t, like some of us want ML and others don’t.

Why do we need to debate this? I thought most of us are flashlight junkies with multiple light collections. There are so many different lights / drivers / modes available.
Of course we all have different wants and needs! So just get what you want or need!

135

Part of the debate (maybe even the biggest part) is centered around whether ML is a necessary mode when doing group buy lights. If you want to be in the group buy, you have to buy the light that the group buy provides. A lot of times, it is a BLF customized light, which means that opinions are solicited for what people want in a light. That’s when the debate rolls around. Some people only want the highest high. Some want the lowest low. And others want everything in the world for $20 or less, shipped! In order to get participation up on the group buy, every reasonable request is taken into consideration, and usually compromises are made.

Nobody wants their must-have feature to be the one on the chopping block, so feelings get hurt, and threads like this get started. Really, this thread is about one person’s inability to see value in something that they don’t personally use. I call that narrow-minded. But, what do I know? It’s also a little selfish for people to think every GB light has to have everything on their personal list of favorite features. If the light doesn’t have a feature I want, or if it has features I can’t live with, I just ignore the GB and move on. Seemingly, some people can’t do that for some reason. Then, there are those that have no comprehension of what is actually taking place, but they read that one feature was compromised in favor of another, and they believe it without verifying if it is even true. That happened a lot on the EE X6-SE group buy.