Closed: 3rd Annual BLF Scratch Made Light Contest

You MUST find a cave, then hammer out your design with a flint rock at night by the fire while wearing animal skins.

No drinking of the fermented fruit allowed. (it might give you ideas and woman would then become part of the equation and NOTHING would get done! Well, aside from the creation of a small team that likes hammering things with rocks…)

I’m being facetious, of course, all in good fun. :stuck_out_tongue:

I thought and thought and thought and thought…

So, I came up with this potential simple definition of machine tools. Ready?

Anything that is designed to work automatically (without direct human control). The word “designed” is the trick here. If I go to Harbor Freight and buy a lathe, it is obviously a lathe, which is a machine that is designed to be automatic. Easy, right? If I instead go to Harbor Freight and buy a large electric hand-held drill, then I build a bracket to hold it into a position and a framework for tooling and then use it as a lathe, what have I done? I’ve designed a lathe (and subsequently built it). What if I build a lathe from scrap-wood out of my burn pile? It’s still designed to be a lathe, so it is a machine! Get it? What if I fasten some pieces of angle iron to my table saw so that it can be used as a lathe? Well, if it is designed in such a way that anyone who knows how to use a lathe can easily use this thing as a lathe, then it is obviously a lathe, even if a bit unconventional. The design which makes things automatic is the measure by which you could say that it is a “machine”.

What wouldn’t be a lathe? Using a table saw with only the push bar and a steady hand to make something that looks like it was cut on a lathe wouldn’t make it a lathe. So the separation then is not the creativity of the person using the tool, but the intent and purpose of the design of the tool. And that would include the design from the factory, as well as the design of any modifications that are made to the tool. That, to me seems fair. It can be objectively measured, so that everyone can know and understand what is expected, and nobody has an advantage or disadvantage.

What do you think? Is the word “automatic” sufficient to separate machine tools from other tools? Is the word “designed” sufficient to describe the difference? Just trying to help. Obviously, it is ultimately up to the judges.

^ That's some impressive thinking there. Seriously.

I'm not sure about "automatic", but the "design" concept sounds pretty darn good. The reason I think "automatic" might need some adjustment is I don't think lathes are automatic. I think they still need a lot of manual interface, unless part of a CNC. Maybe the concept you are thinking is that neither the part nor the tool are not held to operate. So the the feeding and such is done by the machine. I can't think of a better word at the moment though.

I’m sure glad I signed up for the machine made category, this is making my head spin.

From the Merriam Webster dictionary - online:

handmade

adjective hand·made \ˈhan(d)-ˈmād\

: made with the hands or by using hand tools

Full Definition of HANDMADE

: made by hand or by a hand process

So, the original thought, when I started this 3 years ago, was to have a hand made contest. Using only hand tools. It did not take long to discover that the enthusiasm for hand made has gone with the Dodo bird. Many love to watch someone do something hand made, but very few want to try it themselves.

As a result of this, the contest evolved, because if it did not, there would have been no contest, since not enough members would even try.

The contest evolved into using a rotary tool, then a drill press and now into even more powered tools.

Is that right? If you want to stick strictly to a loosely defined definition that started in the 1600's, then it is not right. If you want to adopt the word into the 21st. century, then it becomes a gray area, as it has this year.

It does not matter what I think, since I gave it up, but there should most likely be 3 categories:

Hand Made - using the hands or hand tools only

Home Made - using the hands, hand tools and small, manually operated power tools designed for the home handy man. Power tools that need to have a person operate them and tools that do not run in an automatic mode, such as lathes or end mills.

Machine Made - using anything available to individuals or machine shops. Any hand, manual, or automatic machine or combination thereof.

That still leaves gray areas for some people. So be it. Let the judges decide. That's what judges are for. If they think a person stepped into the machine made area, then judge them with the other machine made contestants. The judges should make those decisions, not the contestants.

Perfect! Thanks, O-L!

OMG, stop the bickering and just make some damn lights!!! :bigsmile:

^ I know you are saying the above to lighten the mood and that is cool. Just in case, it's not bickering. Some of these builds require a serious commitment of time and money. They can put a strain on your family and other obligations too. One doesn't want to do all that, just to be told later they were not totally compliant. That is why a few of us care so much.

I just realized a stupidly easy solution for just my case. It was right in front of me, but I didn't realize it. Here it is:

Please reclassify my entry to the machine category. I only have average home owner tools, but I would like to use them in any way I dream up and not risk being accused of bending the rules later.

If the above is possible, I would appreciate it very much.

Not bickering, procrastinating, so your half right. Besides, it’s been very polite bickering.

Less talk, more building ;) :beer:

I’m on it, I’m on it. I’ve already used a drill press in several different ways, none of which involved any drilling, so I hope the rules don’t change too much. :open_mouth:

here’s my build thread for my ‘camera lux’: OscarM's handmade entry for the 3rd scratch built contest - camera lux

Judges have now discussed about the ruling, and decided to add Table Saw to the allowed tools section.

We also thought that OL said it very well, especially these parts:


Ps. I love the way Lancman used his Drill Press for polishing up the head of his hand made light, see here:

https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/34442#comment-785932 (Clearly allowed, not even on the gray area)

Phew! That’s a relief. Thanks. :slight_smile:

Thanks _the_ and judges for your consideration and follow up. The confusion started when the "how a tool is used" concept was adopted. I'm guessing that is still the case since it doesn't seem to be specifically addressed. Obviously, Lancman didn't use guides in the example above, so it didn't seem to be any where near a grey area based on my understanding of RBD's interpretation of the rules.

It doesn't seem to matter though because it sounds like any Hand Made contestant that pushes the limits will just be reassigned to the Machine Category with out any negative repercussions. Is that why there has been no response to my request that my entry to be reclassified?

Sorry, didn't notice your request. :(

If anyone in Hand Made category goes to "too gray" area, judges will vote about re-classifying the entry.

If anyone wants to enjoy full freedom of choosing tools/machines, reassigning your own entry to Machine Made category is a good choice.

^ Thank you. I will now commence planning proper.

I was just looking back at O-L’s build thread for the prize light he built last year. I had to laugh inside, when I reached the end of his beamshots and saw this line:

Not to in any way put down that light (it is still awesome looking and I’d be proud to own one) but, if you’ve been watching his builds over the past year, you know how funny that line is. :stuck_out_tongue:

I'm not going to ask a 4th time to be reclassified to the machine category as it apparently is too difficult to cut and paste my name a few lines down. Instead of saying please, I will just say withdraw me from this "contest". I do not have the time or energy to put hundreds of hours and dollars in the name of this contest when a simple, reasonable, request made more than once can not be honored. I didn't introduce vague nuances into this contest, but I guess questioning them crossed an unspoken line.

I wish the best to the contestants! I'll continue to root for you as you are the real contributors and true spirit to this event due to the amount of time, money, sweat, and (sometimes) blood that you invest.

He probably just forgot, it happens sometimes. You could just go ahead and continue your build as if machine made. I’m sure it would get corrected sooner or later.